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    CNI Question

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    CNI Question

    Post by Batch on 12/07/10, 04:54 pm

    Hi All,
    New to the forum and although i have found out heaps of info i do have a specific question to field.
    I am hoping to marry my fiance Li Yan in August, in Nanning. I currently live in Germany and wanted to ask whether i should get the CNI notarised here before sending it to the FCO or whether it will be ok to get notarised in the UK. I have an address i can use in England but don't want to mislead anyone or cause a problem for ourselves.
    I'd appreciate any guidance as i am running out of time to get this in place.
    Thanks
    Andy

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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by Mudgy190 on 12/07/10, 05:18 pm

    As far as I am aware, a notarised document is a notarised document. So as far as marrying your woman is concened I don't think it will be a problem. Maybe, depending on where you want to settle it might be worth considering where the Notary is based, but I don't think it matters. When I came back to the UK with my wife, having had the CNI notarised here in the UK, I thought it would help for ILR if I married her again in the UK. I was advised by the registry office that such an action would only 'muddy the water' ie a marriage in china is recognised as a legal marriage in the UK, therfore no need for 'belt and braces'. I assume the same in Germany. So once she is your wife, she is your wife. Genuine partnerships is the evidence they want whether they are forged in China, Gretna Green or Eccles-On-Sea


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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by handyal on 12/07/10, 05:41 pm

    Hi Andy, and welcome to the forum.

    Your CNI could be produced in Germany (in English), but it would have to be legalised by the FCO and Chinese Embassy in the UK, as you are a British citizen. The wording is very important. Have you been married before ?

    I have some concern over where you would later seek to get a Visa for, Germany or the UK. You can move freely throughout the EU but your wife couldn't without additional Visas, unless she became a citizen of one of these Countries.
    Could you elaberate a little more on your longer term plans, thanks.

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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by Batch on 12/07/10, 06:00 pm

    Hi Thanks for the responses,
    I have been married before, and divorced about 9 years ago, i have the Decree Absolute so that is fine and i will use the wording from the website template for the CNI which was very useful.
    We intend to settle in Germany initially as that is where i currently live and work but of course that can change in the future and longer term i would like to head to China or Singapore.
    I guess my concern was that although i am a British citizen i am resident in Germany and really wanted to get clarification of what would be required. Having had a problem previously with applying for a visa in London when i was flying from Frankfurt i didn't want to make the same mistake again.
    We hope to get a residence visa in Germany once married and then we will have to apply for a visitors visa to visit my family in theUK, unless the UK decide to join the Schengen visa programme. But so far, the UK have been very good at issuing Li Yan a visa, she had unlimited entries on the last one which is better that the Schengen/German visa which only had 2 entries which is also slightly concerning.
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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by handyal on 12/07/10, 08:24 pm

    Andy, this is a new one to me.

    Immigration to the UK by a Chinese citizen is only allowed if the sponsor is a British citizen.
    I assume Germany will have similar immigration conditions.

    Will Germany allow a Chinese citizen a Visa to Germany when you are not a German citizen ?
    How would you apply for a Visa at the German Embassy not being a German citizen ?
    If you apply through the British Embassy as a British citizen, you can only apply for a Visa to the UK. She would need a Schengen Visa for Germany, max 90 day stay.

    Have you already looked into this problem ?

    Has Yi Lan had a visitor visa for the UK before, or for Germany ?

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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by Batch on 13/07/10, 10:52 pm

    Hi Al,
    Yes, Li Yan has had and still has a valid UK visitor visa and a Schengen visa. As i understand it, any EU citizen regardless of where they live in the EU has the same rights as if they were living in their own country. Therefore, all things being equal, it should be fairly straight forward for Li Yan to move to Germany. Initially she will not be allowed citizenship, but as the non EU wife of an EU citizen resident in Germany, provided all the relevant tests are passed, she should be able to get an extended 2 year residence permit, after this period, she is able to apply for a settlement permit.
    I am sure it will not be as easy it as seems but thisis all written in the German Immigration Act and Residence Act so......lets hope.
    Andy
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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by handyal on 14/07/10, 04:43 pm

    Hi Andy,
    First you would have to get a settlement Visa for the UK. Li Yan would not be a British citizen, she would be a UK resident, and her rights would be totally different to yours. She would need a Schengen Visa to visit Germany.

    For Li Yan to reside with you permanently in Germany she would need to pass the 'Life in the UK' test in the UK and she could then apply for British citizenship. As a BC she could permanently join you under the EU agreement.

    China does not recognise dual nationality so she could lose her Chinese passport which would cause later problems in China.

    Just read some of the problems we face being resident in the UK.
    http://nanninginfosite.editboard.com/after-your-wife-arrives-f15/compassionate-grounds-for-leaving-uk-has-anyone-tried-this-t1882.htm

    Being a British citizen, residing in Germany, and having an overseas foreign wife, whom you wish to reside in Germany with you, is a long, complicate process full of Immigration red tape.

    I would like to know how you plan to acheive this while you continue to reside in Germany. I can't find a way around it, other than following the advice already given, but you would still have to blag the UKBA that you are resident in the UK.

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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by Batch on 21/07/10, 04:53 pm

    Hi Al,
    I am pretty sure Li Yan can get residency in Germany as my spouse but i guess we will find out soon enough. If necessary i shall transfer back to the UK for a while until we can resolve it.
    More pressing at the moment is my confusion over what documents are required.
    I was reading on the Chinese Embassy site that they require :-

    Ⅰ.Please complete a legalization application form before submitting your documents. It is available at request at this office, or to download at this website.

    . Please submit the original document authenticated by the Department of British Foreign and Commonwealth Office and its complete duplicate (including FCO Apostil page). Document which contains two pages or more should be tightly banded with ribbons and Notary Public seal should be produced to avoid any forge behavior.

    . If the document is for private affairs, your passport and valid visa together with the photocopies of the above are required.

    Plus

    3) The Decree issued by the Court of UK and authenticated in the last 3 months by FCO and its duplicate.

    The divorced from a non-Chinese citizen shall provide a certificate in relation to the nationality of the former spouse and the duplicate copy.

    By duplicate do they mean photocopy or do i have to get each document notarised/lagalised by the FCO twice?

    If i have the reference to my Decree Absolute on my CNI do i still need the Absolute notarised/lagalised?

    Is a copy of my ex-wifes passport sufficient for proof?

    Thanks for any help

    Andy.
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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by handyal on 21/07/10, 08:05 pm

    Hi Andy,
    Your talking about Visas and getting married in the same breath. Treat the two completely seperate or you'll get confused.
    (The procedure you quoted is just for legalisation at the Chinese Embassy if your doing it yourself, in person.)


    For marriage;
    You need a Certificate of No Impediment (CNI).
    This must be then legalised by the FCO (Foreign Commonwealth Office) and the Chinese Embassy.
    Please read our dedicated page about Marriage procedures first before you do anything. This explains everything.
    http://nanninginfosite.editboard.com/summary-marriage-visas-after-your-wife-arrives-f13/information-marriage-to-a-chinese-citizen-for-the-uk-t1896.htm
    Please ask again if you don't understand the marriage procedure.

    Ref getting residency for Li Yan in Germany. Many of us here on this site are married to Chinese women. They have a Visa to reside in the UK. As a british citizen I can work in Germany, but my wife would have to remain in the UK or visit on a Schengen Visa. Only if she got British citizenship would she have the same rights as you and be able to reside permanently in Germany.


    Last edited by handyal on 21/07/10, 08:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: CNI Question

    Post by Guest on 21/07/10, 08:19 pm

    When you have your CNI legalised by the Foreign Commonwealth Office, you submit your CNI to the Chinese Embassy for legalisation including Application Form Notarization /Legalization what you fill in with your details.

    Do follow the link what Alan as mentioned

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