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    English Language Test

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    rich.redw
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    English Language Test

    Post by rich.redw on 07/01/11, 03:12 am

    Im sure by now, everyone is aware of the new Immigration Guidelines and the English Test for foreign nationals wishing to emigrate to the UK. According to one of the paragraphs in the fine print, if a person is married to a EU national living in Britain, that person is exempt from taking the test I myself have a Swedish passport and live in the UK so now Im wondering if my fiancee will have to take the test when its time to submit the Application or have i got it all wrong?? I have pasted the relevant Information...Hope it will be of use to someone
    Cheers Rich






    Information for applicants on the new English language
    requirement for partners
    General information

    Who will the requirement affect?

    From 29 November 2010, any migrant applying to enter the UK or applying to
    remain in the UK as the partner of a British citizen or a person settled here will
    need to show that they can speak and understand English.
    An applicant will need to meet the requirement if they are:
    a national of a country outside the European Economic Area and
    Switzerland; and
    in a relationship with a British citizen or a person settled here; and
    applying as that persons husband, wife, civil partner, fiance(e),
    proposed civil partner, unmarried partner or same-sex partner.
    The new English requirement does not apply to the following groups of
    applicants:

    spouse or partner of Tier 1 and Tier 2 visa applicants

    spouse or partner of a student
    visitors
    refugees or spouses of refugees applying on the basis of family reunion
    dependent children
    spouse or partner of an EEA national
    spouse or partner of a member of the armed forces applying
    under Part7 of the Immigration Rules

    applicants for indefinite leave to remain

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    davidmckendrick
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by davidmckendrick on 07/01/11, 04:25 am


    Hi Rich,
    It certainly looks as if she would be exempt. Just to be sure you could email the British Embassy or Consulate where she will be applying for her Settlement visa in China and ask them to confirm what the requirements would be for your fiancee.

    David
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by MadGee on 07/01/11, 07:44 am

    Hi Rich,

    You are a Swedish national living in the UK (not a British national)?

    Is your wife to be applying for an 'EEA Family Permit' to join you in the UK, as she is non-EEA?

    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/#header3

    Just a thought.


    rich.redw
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by rich.redw on 07/01/11, 11:11 am

    Hi MadGee, thanks for the added information...there are so many paragraphs to consider, its easy to get confused..however, I will take Davids advice and write the Visa Agency in Guangzhou to clarify the situation onca and for all. Thanks again....Rich

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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by rich.redw on 07/01/11, 11:17 am

    Thanks David...I will take your advice..its reasonable and Ill know first hand from the "horses mouth" so to speak...Cheers...Rich
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by handyal on 07/01/11, 06:43 pm

    Hi Rich,
    Read all the information on the link Madgee gave you.

    How long have you been resident in the UK and do you hold a permanent residency document ?

    Your wife will definately need an 'EEA Family Permit'. Unlike your right to permanent residence in the UK a family permit is only valid 10 years and must be replaced. The problem with this type of Visa is that your non EEA wife is only allowed to stay in the UK as your partner, and not in her own right. I'm fairly sure she has no right to claim any public funds.

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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by rich.redw on 07/01/11, 07:03 pm

    Hi Handyhal...thanks again for the info..Im sure Ill have to read more about it on the link provided..havent got much time though..Ill look through the information and act accordingly.
    Then Ill make a decision..the right one I hope. Cheers Rich
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 10/01/11, 11:06 am

    Handyal, you are wrong.
    We EUROPEANS are very special people, with very special rights.That's why we are such happy people.
    Rich I told you before [months ago] that you as a EC citzizen ,living in another EC country,[ like UK]can get a free of fee entry visa for your wife, and no language test.How long you stay in UK is not important,an EC citizen can go to other EC country , and register, and immediately apply for an entry visa for his wife.In Nl also aregistered partner or a with a proven steady relationship
    AFTER 3 yrs of marriage she is allowed to get a visa on selfsupporting base,BUT then she has to do the language test first.
    After 5 yrs of staying in UK you can apply for permanent EC resident card.Or apply for naturalisation.
    The non -EC citizen [and partner] can not apply for public welfare payment,the first 3 yrs, but is for the rest equal with UK citizen. Very Happy
    Except voting, but in UK that is non problem , since the choises ar minimal Very Happy


    Last edited by Beijing2008 on 10/01/11, 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adjustments)

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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Guest on 10/01/11, 02:32 pm

    Hi Ton.

    As you already know haven't got much time for European Union especially when they create laws which discriminates against nationals living in their country, as you quite rightly pointed out if your European citizen living in another country you receive superior treatment compares to the locals when your partner arrives from outside the European Union.

    If you're going to have European law you should be the same for all European citizens regardless where you live in Europe,

    In anyone's language its call discrimination
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 10/01/11, 03:36 pm

    Robert, I said before; nobody stops you to live in another EC country, and profit the same benefits.
    Ans you are right, I didn't move to another EC country, but my wife came to NL before the integrationtest was introduced , that should be made at the Embassy.
    From April 1[no joke] the Integrationtest at the embassy will be more difficult.Prognoses say it will give a 30-45 pct lower chance to succeed on first attempt..I don't know yet if the price also goes up.Probabaly wil.It's now 350 euro now ex books/dvd /tan-codes.[65 euro]

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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Guest on 10/01/11, 03:51 pm

    its still discrimination
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by handyal on 10/01/11, 05:05 pm

    handyal wrote:

    Your wife will definately need an 'EEA Family Permit'. Unlike your right to permanent residence in the UK a family permit is only valid 10 years and must be replaced. The problem with this type of Visa is that your non EEA wife is only allowed to stay in the UK as your partner, and not in her own right. I'm fairly sure she has no right to claim any public funds.

    Hi Ton,
    Just what part of that information is wrong ? Read the link Graham gave to Rich before you start quoting EU, EC, or EEA.

    The UK has it's own Immigration Rules because we are surrounded by water with no free borders to cross.
    My wife is the wife of an EEA citizen (me), the same as your wife. However my wife needs a Schengen Visa to vist Europe. Your wife would need an 'EEA Family permit' to visit the UK. Her only right to residency is that of being married to an EEA citizen.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 10/01/11, 07:39 pm

    Handyal, the difference is that Rich is Swedish, living in UK, and has EC rights, because he practiced his right of free movement.You stayed on your white cliffs, and therefore don't have these rights.
    Btw, the UK Border info is terribly outdated, since many of the former Eastblock countries are now EC citizen,as well as Swiss.
    Rich's wife doesn't need a visa for EC mainland.Since she is spouse of an Priviliged Communitycitizen.And a application for payment from public recources,is allowed , if a UK citizen can get such an allowance,if the income is below minimum standard.[so no unreasonable burden]
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by MadGee on 11/01/11, 04:45 am

    Hi Ton,

    This was taken from a top immigration solicitor website:

    EEA Residence Card
    If you are a non-EEA family member of an EEA or Swiss national, it may be possible for you to join your family or partner in the UK by obtaining an EEA Residence Card. If you intend on coming to the UK for more than 6 months, it will be necessary to apply for an EEA family permit. If you are one of the following family members, you are entitled to apply for an EEA Residence Card:

    1.If you are the spouse of an EEA national
    2.If you are a descendant (child or grandchild) of an EEA national or his/her spouse who is 21 years of age or is their dependant (this includes stepchildren or adopted children)
    3.If you are a dependant in the ascending line (i.e. parents or grandparents) of an EEA national or his/her spouse. If you are a Swiss national or an EEA national you are entitled to live and work in the UK.
    This is referred to as a right of residence. You will have a right of residence if you fulfil the following:

    1.If you are working within the United Kingdom; or
    2.If you do not work in the United Kingdom but you are financially able to support yourself without relying on public funds.
    In order to be allowed entry into the UK you will be required to present your passport or national identity card. When you are arriving at major airports, you are required to use the separate channel labelled 'EEA/EU' whenever it is available.

    Indefinite Leave to Remain
    An application for Indefinite Leave to Remain can be made by any who has held an EEA Registration Certificate or an EEA Residence Card, after five years of residence in the UK.

    It confirms what the UKBA advises.

    Before you start quoting EU, read the border controls of EU countries, many have different requirements for NON EEA citizens married to an EEA citizen for border entry.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by handyal on 11/01/11, 07:54 am

    Ton,
    What you suggest is that Rich's wife can board a plane in China without any kind of Visa in her passport and fly through Europe to the UK. How does she prove she is the wife of an EEA citizen ?

    1. She wouldn't be allowed to board in China.
    2. If she did she would be refused entry to the UK.
    3. The airline would be fined 3,000 for not checking her Passport and valid Visa.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 11/01/11, 09:07 am

    No , you missunderstood me, if she lives in UK, she doesn't need a visa for EC mainland, her passport and EC FAMILY PERMIT is sufficient.
    In China she can apply for a EC/EEA Family permit.
    That is the difference with most EC countries; there you enter with a free entry visa for familymembers/partner, and arrived in the country of your spouse, you apply for the EC family permit.
    Other differences are between EC states;
    free entry for ; married,registered partner, steady relation, same sex partner, depends on the country.

    I know that there are problems for on EC mainland living 3rd country spouses, if travelling trough Heathrow,with their husband,having an EC familymember card, UK demands a transitvisa. Which is against EC law.
    So the international coordination isn't working perfect, and to many different regulations.
    Also because UK is not a Schengen country, so in some circumstances that has advantages and disadvatage.
    Because if a spouse of a Dutchie flies from Nowhereland to NL through Heathrow, with a free Schengen visa,it can be a problem, if she has a stay over ,because she doesn't have a UK transit visa.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 11/01/11, 09:32 am

    So border control is making it very difficult;

    Visa info;
    Family members of EEA nationals
    The family members of an EEA national (part 7 of the EEA Regulations) include their:
    spouses or civil partners;
    children under the age of 21 (or children of their spouses / civil partners);
    children aged 21 and over who are dependent on them (or the dependent children of their spouses / civil partners);
    direct relatives in the ''ascending line" who are dependent on them, for example, parents and grandparents (or those of their spouses / civil partners).
    If your family members are EEA nationals they will have the same rights as you to live and work in the UK. The information in this section applies to family members who are not EEA nationals (non-EEA family members).

    How can my family come to live with me in the UK?
    Non - EEA family members should get an EEA family permit before they travel to the UK if they are visa nationals, or if they are coming to live with you permanently or on a long-term basis. If they try to enter the UK for this purpose without an EEA family permit, we may refuse them.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by davidmckendrick on 11/01/11, 09:40 am

    So where and how in China does your spouse apply for this EC/EEA Family permit which allows her free travel throughout the EC????
    And can you put me in touch with anyone who has actually done it??
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 11/01/11, 10:53 am

    If your wife lives in Nanning, Consulate UK in Guangzhou, with her legalised translated marriagedeed,and birthcertificate.[NO and MFA Nanning,and legalisation UK Consulate].And passport of course.

    Perhaps at the justlanded forum you can find someone,I only handle these matters for NL,B AND D.I don't have experience with UK-clients.
    I'll look into it.
    But David, you are English,and you didn't effect your European right of free movement.So you are not a priviledged EC/EEAcitizen.
    Other UK members can tell you wether their spouse can travel freely to EC mainland. From UKBC it is impossible to figure out[for me...] Mad
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by davidmckendrick on 11/01/11, 02:38 pm

    I am not ENGLISH.

    My wife lives in Scotland and can get a free Schengen visa at the French Embassy in Edinburgh which is a half hour journey from our house.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 11/01/11, 02:52 pm

    Embarassed SORRY, SCOTTISH.But, to get that, you should use your right of free movement, by living/working in other EC country, like France or Ireland, or Belgium etc.
    OR trade/sell/buy with/to/from an EC country, income must be substantial [f.e. 15-20pct of your sales/income][Carpenter -arrest]
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by handyal on 11/01/11, 05:42 pm

    Ton,
    Now you have explained your point of view much clearer I understand what you are saying.

    If an EEA citizen is working and living in the UK then his Chinese wife who is living in China can apply for an 'EEA Family Permit' to join him in the UK without any'English Language Test'. Using Rich as an example, being Swedish, working and living in the UK, if his wife joined him on such a Visa she would also be able to travel back to Sweden with him if the need arises.

    If I for example (being English), worked and lived in Holland, I could also have my Chinese wife join me with an 'EEA Family Permit' and on my return to the UK my wife could accompany me without any need to take an 'English Test'.

    OK, I'm with all that information and understand, BUT unless you are already an EEA citizen working and living in another EC Country it wouldn't be practical to move jobs, or house, just to avoid an 'English Test'.

    In Rich's case he is a Swedish citizen working and living in the UK so he is already in a position to take the short cut or the alternative to a 'Settlement Visa' and avoid his wife taking the 'English Test' in order to join him in the UK. For Rich the 'EEA Family Permit' route would be the easy option !

    Is that what your saying ?
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by Beijing2008 on 11/01/11, 07:02 pm

    yEP He only has to privide his wife with the copy of his passport,and UK permit,and best inform the UK consulate that his wife is coming for an EEA family permit.Of course she has to show her documents.In general;proof of unmarried status, passport, and translated legalised birthcertificate [needed in UK,u never can tell] .I don't know if there is a term within the EEA FP should be provided,for an entry visa the max is 4 weeks.

    As you say, pack your bags and run is easy to say , BUT;
    1] you don't need to earn a fixed income[ in NL for a Dutchy;about 1000 GBP nett a month]
    2]EEA permit may not cost more than 41 euro[that is the amount for EC]
    3]Fast procedure
    4]No Language test, probably no integration course.
    I pointed out the difference in costs between a EC citizen and a privileged EC citizen before,in another topic.
    Main reason for the EC route is most of the time
    to low income,
    the language test, from April 1 2011 in NL even more difficult,
    the long waiting for approval of the normal staying permit.
    the costs ;
    350 euro language test,
    850 euro staying permit procedure,
    integration course should be payed by the new citizen, according to new Integration law ,which was supposed to be in action Januari 1, but the computerprogramm is delayed,lol.
    Till now it was 145 euro for 3 yrs.
    After 1 yr renewal of the permit 445 euro.Then you get a 5 yr permit.If you succeed for the integrationexam,you can apply for Dutch citizenship after 3 yr stay in NL.[this is also for partner of priviliged EC citizen]
    Costs of naturalization from Jan1 2011....785 Euro.OUCH Evil or Very Mad
    [ we paid last yr 650 Euro]
    So count your blessings.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by handyal on 11/01/11, 10:43 pm

    OK Ton,
    Now we understand each other please tell me again how my statement made to Rich in post no.6 with reference to his Chinese wife was wrong. Rich is an EEA national living in the UK and is seeking a way for his wife to join him.
    Quote:
    Your wife will definately need an 'EEA Family Permit'. Unlike your right to permanent residence in the UK a family permit is only valid 10 years and must be replaced. The problem with this type of Visa is that your non EEA wife is only allowed to stay in the UK as your partner, and not in her own right. I'm fairly sure she has no right to claim any public funds.

    1. Your wife will definately need an 'EEA Family Permit'.
    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/#header3
    Family members who are not EEA or Swiss nationals
    If your family members are not EEA or Swiss nationals and they are coming to live with you permanently or on a long-term basis, they will need to apply for an EEA family permit before coming to the UK. The EEA family permit is similar to a visa, and your family members should apply for it at their nearest British diplomatic post. Our Visa services section contains more information.

    2. Unlike your right to permanent residence in the UK a family permit is only valid 10 years and must be replaced.
    Permanent residence
    After you have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years, you can apply for confirmation of permanent residence. For details of how to apply, see the Applying page.
    If you are an EEA or Swiss national and your application is successful, we will issue you with a document which confirms that your are a permanent resident in the UK. This document has no expiry date, and you should produce it when asked to do so.
    If you are a non-EEA national and your application is successful, we will issue you with an endorsement - this is a sticker (also called a 'vignette') which is placed in your passport. The endorsement is valid for 10 years, and you should produce it when asked to do so. (In some circumstances, we may issue you with an immigration status document instead of an endorsement. You should produce this document and your passport as evidence of your status when asked to do so.)

    3. The problem with this type of Visa is that your non EEA wife is only allowed to stay in the UK as your partner, and not in her own right.
    http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf18eeaswissnationals
    Do my family members need a residence card?
    Your non-EEA family members can, if they want to, apply to the UK Border Agency for a residence card once they are in the UK. They do not have to do this - it simply confirms that they have the right to live with you in the UK because you have a right of residence.
    Non-EEA family members who have a valid residence card do not need to get an EEA family permit each time they enter the UK after travelling abroad.

    4. I'm fairly sure she has no right to claim any public funds.
    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/rightsandresponsibilites/#header3
    Public funds
    You do not have to work while you are living in the UK. But if you do not work, you must be able to support yourself and your family in the UK without becoming an unreasonable burden on public funds.
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    Re: English Language Test

    Post by makem on 12/01/11, 12:52 am

    davidmckendrick wrote:I am not ENGLISH.

    My wife lives in Scotland and can get a free Schengen visa at the French Embassy in Edinburgh which is a half hour journey from our house.

    So, you say your wife can get a free visa because she lives in Scotland and you are not English? Really!

    If that is so then there really IS a North South divide now and it is time the English Parliament stopped Scottish members from voting on English matters and visa versa.

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    Re: English Language Test

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