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    Divorce and Marriage

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    Kev
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    Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 18/05/11, 02:04 pm

    Hi to everyone. Some of you will remember me from a while back. Thanks back then to all of you for the amazing expert advice given.
    I am sorry to say my marriage did not work, this is a very long story and I will explain why sometime in the future. I hope you don't mind me leaving that for now. It was a very difficult and sad time. But life moves on.
    But its not all bad news, I have met another lovely Chinese woman who lives and works in the UK. We are considering the possibility of marriage in the future, yes !!! this experience did not put me off.
    Ok now the questions, if I return to Nanning to get divorced will the divorce papers they give me allow me to marry again in China on that same trip. Or do I need to return to the UK with the papers and go through all the CNI FCO Chinese Embassy legalisation process.
    Many thanks
    Kev
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    luckysteve
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by luckysteve on 18/05/11, 03:27 pm

    Hi Kev, a very warm welcome back to the Forum.
    We are very sorry to hear your marriage did not work out Sad .
    Please do not worry about trying to explain about the breakdown of your marriage as that is personal and possibly still hurting now but time is a good healer.
    I personally ignored the red flags as so to speak in my first marriage, like the idiot I am.
    I have managed to pick a Beautiful Lady this time round seven months of happy marriage and still going strong lol! .
    I am Sorry I can not answer your question but I am the dunce jocolor here and they normally hide me in the corner (I have sneaked out while no one is looking).
    I am sure Alan or one of the other clever members will be able to help you.
    In the meantime welcome back and Good Luck with your new Lady.

    Steve and Li Li Very Happy Smile
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    chinatyke
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by chinatyke on 18/05/11, 03:50 pm

    Kev wrote:I have met another lovely Chinese woman who lives and works in the UK. We are considering the possibility of marriage in the future....
    Ok now the questions, if I return to Nanning to get divorced will the divorce papers they give me allow me to marry again in China on that same trip. Or do I need to return to the UK with the papers and go through all the CNI FCO Chinese Embassy legalisation process.
    Many thanks
    Kev

    If you divorce in China how will you obtain a new CNI that is required by the Chinese marriage authorities? And if your new lady lives in UK why are you considering marrying her in China? The answer to your question is that you cannot get married in China without the required certificate. You can marry in the UK on your return which seems a much more sensible proposition.

    Graham
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 18/05/11, 07:02 pm

    chinatyke wrote:
    Kev wrote:I have met another lovely Chinese woman who lives and works in the UK. We are considering the possibility of marriage in the future....
    Ok now the questions, if I return to Nanning to get divorced will the divorce papers they give me allow me to marry again in China on that same trip. Or do I need to return to the UK with the papers and go through all the CNI FCO Chinese Embassy legalisation process.
    Many thanks
    Kev

    If you divorce in China how will you obtain a new CNI that is required by the Chinese marriage authorities? And if your new lady lives in UK why are you considering marrying her in China? The answer to your question is that you cannot get married in China without the required certificate. You can marry in the UK on your return which seems a much more sensible proposition.

    Graham

    If you divorce in China (I presume you are both agreeable to the divorce), you can get a new CNI issued by the British Embassy/Consulate in China on production of your Chinese divorce papers. They won't issue it for 10 days though.
    In my opinion you would need to spend at least 4 weeks in China in order to divorce, be issued a new CNI, remarry, and make a new Visa application.

    On what basis is your friend working and living in the UK? What kind of Visa is she holding ?

    If she has 6 months remaining on her current Visa there is nothing to stop you getting married in the UK and then applying in the UK to change the category of Visa from ? to 'Settlement'.

    If you divorce and remarry in China within such a short time frame, how would this appear to the UKBA for your new application?
    Not good, it would be treated with suspicion.

    The way forward and the choices available are really dictated by both your own personal circumstances.
    If your current marriage has broken down you should also immediately inform the UKBA.

    Many members never post when things go wrong so thanks for having the courage to inform us.
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 18/05/11, 08:00 pm

    Hi,again thanks for any advice given. At this time we are just at the very early stages of looking into this and looking for some good advice.
    First the divorce, yes we are both agreeable to this.
    The woman I have met is called Yen, she is a very respected Doctor. She was also married to a Doctor ( He is Chinese ) She came to the UK about 5 1/2 years ago to be with her husband who had moved over here before her. The marriage ended and she is divorced and he returned to China.
    Yen stayed on in the UK on her dependant visa. This expires 15th November this year.
    We really would like to be married and the plan would be to stay in the UK for about another 2 years then go to live in China.
    Is this a realistic plan or am I missing something that I really should know about.
    Many thanks
    Kev
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    dafu
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by dafu on 18/05/11, 11:01 pm

    If you divorce in China and re-marry in China the divorce document is acceptable to the Chinese authorities as proof of single status. It is already in Chinese too!

    However, if your future wife was divorced in the UK she will have to get the divorce certificate translated, approved at FCO and validated at the Chinese embassy.
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    davidmckendrick
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by davidmckendrick on 19/05/11, 12:45 am

    How has Yen stayed legally in the UK for 5 1/2 years without getting ILR? She is not with her husband in UK now so cannot apply for ILR now. She could apply for UK citizenship but she would lose her Chinese Citizenship.
    You don't really have enough time left on her current visa to get divorced, remarried and apply for her visa to be changed to a Settlement visa.,

    Sorry, I can't really be helpful with this.

    David
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 19/05/11, 05:51 am

    Hi David
    I know you people are the experts in this area thats why I am here for any help. I don't have your knowledge and expertise. I cant pretend to understand the complicated visa rules.
    You say how can Yen be here legally, then you say we don't have time left on her current visa. If her current visa has not yet expired then surely she is here legally ?
    She really only wants to stay in the UK for about 2 more years while her daughter who also lives with her completes her education. The plan then is to return to China to live and resume her work as a Doctor. So what visa would she need for an extra 2 years.
    Not sure if this information helps but she has a home in the UK that is bought and paid for, she has a full time job, and her daughter goes to school here in the UK. She is not dependent on anyone financiallly and can very easily support herself.
    If we got married I would go back to China with her in two years time to start a new life there.
    I know life can't be that easy so please give me any advice.
    Many thanks
    Kev
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 19/05/11, 06:53 am

    Kev,
    Do you know what Visa her ex husband had to allow him to be in the UK? I'm guessing it was a Tier 2-4 work Visa.
    When were they divorced?
    Where were they divorced?

    You say she came as a dependant of her ex husband. When they divorced (I'm guessing it was China) then she used a dependant Visa to remain in the UK but her conditions would have changed and she isn't dependant on anyone now.
    She should have notified the UKBA of her divorce and changed the category of her Visa. Providing she met the conditions then she would have been issued a Tier 2-4 Visa.

    Have you notified the UKBA of your marriage breakdown and your intention to divorce in China?
    If you or a migrant doesn't notify them of changes then you could later be accussed of deceit or even fraud which would result in all future applications being refused.

    Visa applicants must be squeeky clean or their applications will fail.
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 19/05/11, 03:46 pm

    Hi
    Yen's husband was here on a PSW !!! ? visa and Yen joined him here later on a dependent visa. He graduated and moved to and from Uk and China with his work and studies.
    As I understand they are not officially divorced until Yen goes back later this year to sign the relevant paperwork then they are divorced.
    Do you know what visa Yen will then need to stay a further 2 years. After that time she is returning to her work and home in China.
    Thanks
    Kev


    Last edited by Kev on 19/05/11, 09:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 19/05/11, 04:46 pm

    Kev wrote:Do you know what visa Yen will then need to stay a further 2 years. Thanks
    Kev

    Settlement Visa. She needs to find a husband in the UK !!!

    Her husband was on a Post Study Work Visa. As a dependant she has 'Leave to Remain' in the UK until her Visa expires.

    To be honest Kev it smacks of 'red flags' at the moment !
    Just what went wrong in your current marriage ?
    What went wrong in her marriage ?
    How did you meet each other ?
    What kind of Doctor is she ?
    Have you informed the UKBA your marriage is 'on the rocks' ?

    Sorry to be so intrusive but a bigger picture of the whole situation is required in order to make an evaluation.
    As I stated before the way forward depends on the situation. Lots of Immigration rules and regulations for different conditions.
    With the information you have so far supplied it may be painting the wrong picture.
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 19/05/11, 06:27 pm

    Thanks for your honest reply.
    I don't really want to go into too much detail about my marriage. But when my wife arrived in the UK she really did not want to be with me. I feel that I have been used. On the 2nd day in the UK she wanted to move from our home in the Peak District and live in London. She had contacts there and something had been pre-arranged. She said she would return about 1 weekend every 3 months. I explained to her this was not how a marriage should be.

    I am not sure what happened with the London thing but when it didn't happen she just didn't want to be here. She made it very clear she was not here for me or our marriage in many ways.

    Yen's marriage broke down when she arrived in the UK and found her husband had been seeing another Chinese woman here in the UK. They tried to sort it out but he continued to see this woman.
    He has returned to China and Yen remained here.
    I met Yen when I was out in Sheffield with some friends, along time after my wife returned to Nanning. She has been a great help and support to me through this difficult time.
    Dr Yen is a very highly respected gynaecologist, she has won many awards for her work and carried out many difficult operations. Much of her research and work has been published in many professional medical journals.

    I have informed the UKBA that my marriage is over
    Kev

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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 19/05/11, 08:31 pm

    Would her name be Jacqueline I-Yen Tay ?
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 19/05/11, 08:51 pm

    No thats not her name, ????
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 20/05/11, 04:54 pm

    Sorry to learn you were used for no more than a Visa ! It's not the type of experience any of us would like to encounter but it does happen and it's not confined to just Chinese women. Your now the 3rd member who has been used in this way and it takes guts to admit it to others.

    If some of my questions are direct Kev it's because I wouldn't like to see you make the same mistake again. At the moment your vunerable and gullible. Your a grown man though and make your own decisions. We can only advise, we can't choose.

    In the current situation of Immigration control the only Visa Yen can hope to apply for that will allow her to stay and work in the UK for 2 years is a 'Settlement' Visa. She would therefore have to divorce her Chinese husband and remarry someone who is present and settled in the UK.

    I'm presuming that your plan is to return to China with Yen, both get a divorce, marry and then apply for a Visa within the same trip?
    If this is the case then because you were married to a Chinese citizen and you divorced in China then your divorce document should be proof of your single status as Dafu posted and you shouldn't need a CNI. However if you return to the UK after divorcing then you would need a CNI from the UK if you return to get married.

    Why does she only want to stay in the UK for 2 years then return to China and what will you do?
    A gynaecologist would earn far more money in the UK than in China.
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 20/05/11, 05:50 pm

    Hi Al
    Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate all the good advice given here. It was a difficult time but you have to learn from past mistakes and move on.
    I would never be offended by any direct questions, I know you are trying to help me and for that I am very very grateful. So keep them coming !
    I have learned alot about Yen in the past few months and I know we both want the same things in life. She is a very good honest woman and I am very lucky to have met her.
    Yes the plan would be to get divorced and married on the same trip. Yen would probably stay on in China longer to submit the visa application ( unless I need to be there ? )
    The 2 years in the UK would then take Yen's time here to 7 1/2 years and she feels ready to go home to China.
    She has property in China and could resume her job as a Doctor. Her family also have many different businesses. I know how difficult it is for a Chinese wife to come into the UK, but what about a UK husband going to live in China. If needed Yen could very easily support both of us financially, money really is not an issue.
    Many thanks for any more advice
    Kev
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 21/05/11, 01:23 pm

    Hi Kev,

    You say to keep the questions flowing, I do have a few. Please don't take offence at this. I have to agree with Handyal. I do sense some danger for you too.

    What hospital/s does she work at?
    What journals has she published in?
    How old is she?
    What is her family name?
    Why does she want to stay just for a further 2 years?
    On her present visa does she have multiple entries?
    Was she a fully trained in Gynaecology before she went to the UK?
    Wouldn't her present employer fight tooth and nail to keep her in the country if she is as prominent as suggested?

    Cheers,
    Chris.

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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 21/05/11, 02:50 pm

    Hi Chris
    Many thanks for your reply and your concern, it is very much appreciated.
    Yen graduated from the Anhui Medical University China in 1998, she then worked at the Youyi teaching Hospital of Anhui Province.
    Her publications include
    1.Clinical analyis of the laparoscopy operation on womens abdominal benign tumor (Anhui clinical medicine, China May 2003, pp )
    2. The clinical application of pregnancy on th functional uterine hemorrhage during menopause (Anhui medicine and pharmacy, China. June 2002, pp )
    3.Clinical observation of preventive effects of card pregnancy tethers from post-parturient hemorrhage.( Anhui medicine and pharmacy, China Oct 2002,pp )
    4.30 cases of treatment of MYX for extra-uterine pregnant ( Hefei clinical medicine, China July 2001,pp )
    She has won many awards for her research and work, such as the outstanding technologist,and the Scientific Advancement prize. And she has performed many complicated operations.

    She is genuine there is no doubt about that, she is an excellent gynecologist and was also the director of the gynaecological department.

    Her surname name is Chen, but her friends call her Yen, she is 46 years old. She would prefer to return to China when her daughter has completed her education here at Sheffield. There are many reasons for wanting to return to China. The UK does not hold happy memories for her. When she arrived here to be with her Chinese husband, she found he had been seeing another woman
    I dont mean any disrespect to Sheffield, but where would you rather be !!!! She has a home in Hefei, and a share in a large family home in Wuhu.
    She gave up her work in the Hospital in China to be with her husband.
    Even though she is very very highly skilled she would still need to complete a graduate research study course here in the UK to continue her work as a Doctor. The last few years she has given time to her daughter and trying to repair her marriage so the course never happened. She found other work inbetween.
    She does not have multiple entries on her visa.
    Thanks
    Kev


    Last edited by Kev on 21/05/11, 06:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 21/05/11, 03:17 pm

    Hi Kev,
    Do you know how old her daughter is and when do her studies at the University end.
    I ask because if her daughter is over 18 then she couldn't return to the UK with her mother as a dependant.
    The UKBA have closed many of the Visa categories for entry to the UK now but as you give more information I'm getting the bigger picture and the choice of options available to you all.
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    Kev
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 21/05/11, 03:35 pm

    Hi
    Her daughter is 14, and her ambition is also to be a Doctor.
    Kev
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    davidmckendrick
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by davidmckendrick on 21/05/11, 04:00 pm

    Hi Kev,
    Yen's 14 year old daughter will not complete her education in two years if she stays in the UK. If she wants to be a doctor like her parents then she would expect to stay at High School for another 4 years then another 4 or 5 years at University. She would be better to stay here and complete her training in a language she is now used to rather than switching back to Chinese.
    Would you rather have Yen and her daughter staying here indefinitely with you or do you want to move to China where you would have little chance of getting a job with a decent salary because of job competition and your poor command of Chinese? I know you said that Yen could keep all of you without you working but how would you feel about not being able to work and having to rely on your wife and daughter to support you?

    David
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 21/05/11, 11:58 pm

    Hi Kev, thanks for answering the questions, things are looking a little clearer now.

    1. Yen is not working in a British hospital at present.
    2. To do so, Yen would have to undertake further training to be able to work in the UK.
    3. Yen's daughter, 14, certainly has more than 2 years of schooling left before she will complete studies to become an MD. Unless the plan is to complete High School and continue with her studies in China.

    If there is love between you and Yen I can see no problem with Yen trying for a settlement visa through marriage to help her daughter continue with her studies and, maybe, to complete her own studies as well, this is a natural thing. The problem is whether there are true feelings of love between you both. I will be right in thinking that the British authorities will be looking into this situation very closely before a settlement visa is granted. I believe just getting married will not be a reason for granting Yen a visa. Yen's love for you could very well be genuine, she's been through a lot as well and may be very happy that she has found, what could be, a true and faithful husband, someone who will respect her. Only you can judge that, not us. If all is well, I can see three very happy people. I have a Chinese daughter, who is now 20 and at University here in Melbourne, and she is a gem, a beautiful young women, sadly living most of the week away from home.

    Take care, don't be too suspicious of motives but be aware so as not to be hurt again, but there is a strong possibility you may have found a good caring woman. Someone that I, and many others, have already found or would like. I wish you all the very best.

    Chris, Ying and Ting.
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    handyal
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by handyal on 22/05/11, 09:33 am

    When are you planning to go back to China ?

    You must divorce in the province where you were married, as Yen must, but you must then marry within the province of Yen's hometown. Your Chinese divorce document should enable you to remarry in China without the need for a CNI, but if it's in a different province then it would be well worth while getting Yen to contact the Marriage office in her hometown to confirm this would be acceptable.
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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by Kev on 22/05/11, 10:44 am

    Again so much excellent advive, thanks to all of you.

    If Yen's gets the visa then we would stay in the UK for another 2 years. Yen's daughter would remain in the UK, then go on to University here in the UK. Yen's ex husband will also be returning to the UK some time in the future to continue his work and studies, so Yen's daughter wont be here alone.
    We really do want to be together for the right reasons. She is a lovely caring honest woman.
    Is divorce in Nanning quite straight forward ? we are both agreeable to the divorce.
    Am I missing anything here about me living in China, is there some complicated process to go through. I understand the difficulties of getting a job, but Yen has a home in China and money really is not an issue. I know it cant really be that simple....can it ?
    Thanks
    Kev

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    Re: Divorce and Marriage

    Post by davidmckendrick on 22/05/11, 11:33 am

    Marriage and divorce in NanNing are both straightforward if both parties are agreeable.

    So Yen gets divorced, marries you, gets a Settlement visa. After two years she can apply for Indefinite Leave to remain in the UK for herself and her daughter. Her 16 year old daughter will stay here and finish her school and University education.

    From my own experience with Mei and her son, I have a strong suspicion that Yen will insist on staying here with her daughter until her daughter finishes University. I doubt whether her ex, having already gone off without Yen or his daughter will want to return to UK and look after his daughter without Yen.

    If he does not agree to stay to look after his daughter would you and Yen be prepared to leave a 16 year old on her own in a country where English is not her first language? No? Neither would I.

    Then there is the cost of the Settlement visas for Yen and her daughter, ILR visas for them both. Accommodation and University fees for 4 or 5 years for the daughter to be financed from a doctor in China's salary????

    Then you want to stay in China with no income. You have to prove to the Chinese authorities that you have enough finances to support yourself so you need plenty of money in your bank. The new visa application forms also ask about health insurance! You apply for 3 month, 3 month, 6 month then annual visas while in China.

    Maybe I just got very cynical after working in a psychiatric hospital for too long but I think you will find that the UKBA visa officers are equally cynical and very suspicious.....

    David

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