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    Westernisation of our chinese wives

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    wanneroo
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    Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by wanneroo on 03/07/11, 01:52 pm

    Just open for comments, regarding how long it took members wives to get into the Western mode from a life time in China,
    your comments would be welcome
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    davidmckendrick
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by davidmckendrick on 03/07/11, 02:40 pm

    Hi Geoff,
    What would you regard as "Western mode"?
    Chinese citizens in China seem to be becoming westernised very fast. In just a few decades they have changed and adopted Western modes already. They dress in "Western clothes" including denim jeans; eat at KFC, McDonalds, Pizzahut, Starbucks; shop at TESCO and WalMart; drive everywhere; live and work in skyscrapers.....


    David
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    MadGee
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by MadGee on 03/07/11, 03:05 pm

    You can take a girl out of China .....
    but you will never take China out of the girl!
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    chinatyke
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by chinatyke on 03/07/11, 03:24 pm

    I agree with MadGee. My late wife had lived in England for 30+ years but still thought the Chinese way.
    My sister's best friend was adopted in Guangzhou by an English couple when she was a few months old. You have never seen anybody as "Chinese" in her thinking processes even though she never spoke or was aware of Chinese culture. So it must be in their genes!
    I suppose in time they become 'acclimatised' to western ways, the same as we tolerate Chinese ways.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by davidmckendrick on 03/07/11, 09:40 pm

    My wife has been here since November 2007 and she has been shopping in UK without any obvious difficulty since the day after she arrived here but the other day I asked if she wanted anything from the supermarket while I was shopping. It took some time for her to describe "carrots" especially without using the words carrots or orange!!!!

    I'm sure I could shop fairly easily in any supermarket regardless of which country I was in and I could probably find a KFC or McDonalds there too.

    Perhaps Geoff could describe exactly what he meant by "Western mode"????


    David
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 03/07/11, 10:15 pm

    I agree with madgee and Chinatyke, living in the western world seems not to be a problem...it's their thinking that is different, and I don't necessarily think that's all bad either. My wife seemed to fit in without too many problems, even to driving on the 'wrong side' of the road. Shopping is quite visual, it doesn't seem to matter if the language is different usually the price is in Roman numerals, Ying did have to learn the terms, per, doz, ea, etc that caused a bit of confusion at times also 2 for 1 offers etc. Western manners,(that's if we remember them anymore) have their differences, but,once again it just seemed to be no problem. Probably the best teacher for the western way of life has been the cinema, going to the cinema in China seems very popular especially English speaking films with Mandarin sub titles. Money, Ying calls the Yuan a dollar she's found out that most things Chinese here have similar costs to China, what costs 20RMB in China seems to cost us A$20 dollars here,300Yuan - A$300 etc. There's a lot of money being made by retailers importing their own goods! Work. Ying is still amazed that she can have 4 weeks PAID leave a year with a holiday loading, and get paid if you get sick and if you lose your job!

    Cheers,
    Chris
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    wanneroo
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by wanneroo on 04/07/11, 02:01 am

    Thanks guys, I was more inclined to think of the psychological adaptation of Chinese thinking to a Western model that our Chinese wives view from a different culture and language.
    Mary has been tuned into the Communist party throughout her upbringing in Southern China with a great respect for Chairman Mao which I respect. I have my opinions but keep them to myself.
    She likes to talk a lot on this subject, her English improves greatly when a topic like this is under discussion, I observe a great passion for her homeland, However Mary also knows that Australia is offering a better lifestyle.
    The capitalist society here, can make our streets looked paved with gold from a Chinese prospective. A visit to the local Myer store with its high prices and Chinese imported product like all Western countries leaves a bad taste in my mouth at least, Mary saw the tickets and high prices insisting to see where the clothes are made of course 90% Chinese and the balance still from Asia
    I think however that mainland China has now increased prices across the board. The "bowl of rice" for working long hours in the current climate to use a metaphor is still a view and evident that Countries like Australia and other Western countries are "ripping" the Chinese people off, with the decline of many companies in the UK and Australia now evident from the support of Western people buying from companies who reflect a less expensive base,

    The main thing here is the view and adaptation to a Western thing from a base of poverty. Mary is 60 years of age and has grown up to a changing China which is appearing now to be part of the Western world, with the influences that have crept in since Mao left the scene,the "little red book" still has an immense influence over the older generations Younger Chinese dont give a toss about traditional values they will formulate a new attitude in future years and its now happening

    Not to say any of us will attempt to take the Chinese thinking away.its bred in them. KFC. Mcdonalds etc are not what I was thinking about, Mary dresses Western loves the clothes, likes to eat Western food she loves Australia. but we also cannot or want to change how they think and what they believe in, Having a Chinese partner is so wonderful and fascinating I have learnt a great deal in the time Mary and myself have been together, we continue to learn about each other and the cultural aspects of us both.



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    wanneroo
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by wanneroo on 04/07/11, 02:03 am

    Mad gee you are spot on with your statement
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by davidmckendrick on 04/07/11, 03:06 am

    Hi Geoff,
    Mei will not talk about Mao or the Great Leap Forward. I don't know how much she knows about Chinese history as she is more interested in the UK history she learned in the Life in the UK course she did for her ILR. She knows more about the minimum wage and how many hours a teenager is allowed to work than I ever did. She was allowed to vote in China although there was only ever one party to vote for they still voted for things like a class leader from primary school onwards. Sometimes it seems that our Government parties are also interchangable.

    Since several of our MPs have been jailed recently for expenses fraud she sees little difference here from the corruption in China and elsewhere.

    She knows that Guanxi is not subject to all the rules laid down by the Beijing government because it is an Autonomous Region and can equate that with the regional governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I'm sure it must be the same in Australia.

    As Chris said, Mei doesn't have to convert the prices or salaries from China to UK as there is often a direct interchange without multiplying the price in pounds by ten to get the price in Yuan. However I'm sure she enjoys accumulating a nest-egg in pounds which will be worth ten times as much in Yuan. She did not have any spare cash to save with in China. She has already started investing in the stock market but I think she had been doing this in China.

    She does not want her son to return to China because she has friends who have been generously rewarded by the Benefits system in the UK. One woman in particular had a baby and broke up with her husband. While Mei is very much against giving up on family she saw her friend being given Council accommodation for free and a generous monthly allowance as a single parent. In Scotland her son will not have to pay for College or University fees.

    She doesn't even mind the cold, wet Scottish weather because snow is still a bit of a novelty and she hated the heat and humidity in Nanning in summer. Since we have double glazing and central heating at home and at work, heating in the car, and an indoor heated shopping centre I don't think she really ever gets a chance to feel cold.

    Perhaps Mary would have slightly different views about the high prices in the Myer store if she was working and had a suitably comparatively high salary? Mei's family have always lived in NanNing so they did not start at a base of poverty and were in fact quite well off until her dad needed heart surgery in Beijing which severely depleted the family's reserves. He had to take early retirement a few years after the heart surgery. Mei used to own a restaurant until the council demolished it when they widened the road. The house where Mei was born was also demolished to make way for development but the council rehoused the local community in several blocks of houses near Nanning city centre.

    I used to work in the UK textile industry but it closed down in the UK in the l970's and moved largely to Asian countries where labour costs are much lower. At some point our financial industry will also move East.

    Mei does uphold some Chinese values and always attends the grave sweeping in China every year. It was funny to see Mei and her son rushing to the door to see me off when I was going out to work.


    David
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    slowheel
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by slowheel on 04/07/11, 08:06 am

    Great comments from you guys, very interesting, I love all this stuff, I will be looking forward to enjoying the cultural differences when Alice arrives, Alice also seems to have a great regard for Mao Zedong,

    slow.
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 04/07/11, 10:16 pm

    Ying grew up in the later turbulent times of Mao's reign, haven't been able to glean too much from her yet about that fascinating time of her life. Mao,like Churchill in a way, was a man for the time and he did great things for China. The Cultural Revolution? Well It did seem to go pear shaped later probably with influence from the up and coming Gang of Four, their, the Gang of Four's tyrannical power surge after Mao's passing, led to a more intelligent, tolerant Party leadership take over which lead China to it's present position.

    Funny you should talk about the possibility of Britain's Financial Sectors' moving to the East David, Our Government has just stopped a take over of our Stock Exchange to a Singapore consortium!

    Cheers,
    Chris
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by slowheel on 05/07/11, 07:57 am

    Good points Chris, I must read about Mao from a Chinese prospective, Alice had a very hard life as a kid, but is not comfortable talking about it,
    China is at the moment buying up land in Australia for mining and cattle rearing.

    slow
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by davidmckendrick on 05/07/11, 08:20 am

    Hi Slow,
    China is creating a new empire throughout the world, not by war but by trade. They have already infiltrated most of South America and Africa with trade agreements which allow China to build roads and railways to extract vast mineral wealth without causing as much animosity as other nations wars in these countries did. China is also supplying most of the money that the International Monetary Fund is lending out and shoring up European, US and UK borrowing. Although the RMB has risen in value by 30% against the pound since 2007 there are still calls from the US government for the RMB to be revalued even higher to slow Chinese exports to the west. It is getting to be almost impossible to buy anything in the shops now that is not "made in China". Of course the Chinese also produce a large quantity of "fake" goods and will happily stamp "Made in Germany" on substandard surgical instruments, reasoning that the steel may have come from Germany.
    When you are reading about Chinese history, bear in mind that the Great Wall was built to keep out foreigners and that China had long resisted trade with the west.


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    slowheel
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by slowheel on 06/07/11, 07:29 am

    Thank's David, yes China is a very interesting place and at a very interesting time in their history, my own China ride is fascinating interesting and very enjoyable, I would never want to take China out of the girl, it's the mystery and fascination that's attractive and holding.

    slow
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 06/07/11, 07:41 am

    Quote... I would never want to take China out of the girl, it's the mystery and fascination that's attractive and holding.

    Good stuff Slow,
    Chris.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by slowheel on 07/07/11, 08:03 am

    Thank's Chris, I think if you have a Chinese wife you have to take the whole package, and want to take it as it is, accept her as she is and be very glad she is not westernised, just my thoughts.

    slow
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by lucasausems on 11/07/11, 08:48 pm

    I agree with you Slow.
    And MadGee once again hits the spot with one of his many oneliners ;-)
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    wanneroo
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by wanneroo on 12/07/11, 03:51 am

    The ability to learn proficient English at an older age is very difficult to achieve,mainly due to memory retention, hard work and diligence has to prevail,with a great degree of tolerance and understanding from English speaking partners
    This comes with the Westernisation of our Chinese wives, I would like to ask this question Ex pats now resident in Nanning What degree of the Chinese language have you mastered if any at all?, how do you cope in a fully Mandarin speaking and written country ignoring the small amount of English speaking Chinese people that you come across
    My wife Mary is constantly studying to learn the English language, I never seen anyone so persistent and dedicated to learning my language, I feel very guilty not learning her language, the same difficulty in learning a foreign language at 68 years of age is a massive challenge, I admire the devotion from our Chinese wives to learn English,
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 13/07/11, 10:55 am

    Never mind the Ex pats Geoff what are the rest of us doing to learn mandarin? I've come to the conclusion that, well, I'm lazy! I should try a lot harder than what I am. My current excuse... I'll learn easier when I actually live in China. Hah! Do I really believe that? 'Course not, and I do get upset with myself when I see Ying trying so hard to learn English and seeing the gleam in her eye when she's learnt and uses a new word. In my excuse, I do find my learning ability sadly lacking over the past few years or maybe it's that so much has happened and the poor old brain hasn't much vacant space left, (or maybe there's too much vacant space! LOL.) I am going to keep on trying.

    What are the rest of us doing to combat this apathy?

    Chris.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by chinatyke on 13/07/11, 11:56 am

    slowheel wrote:
    China is at the moment buying up land in Australia for mining and cattle rearing.
    slow

    And apparently in USA also, but not for cattle rearing.

    http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho

    A Chinese city in Idaho?

    I knew USA was desperate but that seems one bridge too far.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by makem on 13/07/11, 12:13 pm

    The world is at war with China, did you not realise that?

    The tools of war are not bombs, they are financial.

    The Chinese have they same idea for the future as the Germans and Japanese did. World domination.

    I don't think anyone can now stop its progress. Just maybe, India and they other developing countries can hold onto their place in the world.

    Imagine these headlines:

    Chinese Ban All Exports To The UK

    Chinese Comunist Government prevent any goods made anywhere in the world with Chinese money, being exported to the UK.

    How would we cope?

    They would have us by the short and curlies in a few months without lifting a finger.

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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 13/07/11, 12:20 pm

    World domination without a shot being fired! Who's the clever ones? I don't believe China would cut off supply of goods to any country, without super cause, why cut off your nose to spite your face? There are many countries that would love to grab some of China's pie, I guess one day that will happen, 'empires' don't last forever. One problem for China is...will we be able to keep on buying...anything?

    Chris.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by davidmckendrick on 13/07/11, 02:42 pm

    Thanks for the link Graham. So it seems that China doesn't have to go to war to gain territory. They found that that just caused resentment in ***** so now they just have to buy a few countries. We'd all better start learning Mandarin fast!!!


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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by makem on 13/07/11, 04:32 pm

    Chris Seaborn wrote:World domination without a shot being fired! Who's the clever ones? I don't believe China would cut off supply of goods to any country, without super cause, why cut off your nose to spite your face?
    Chris.

    If you wanted to bring a country to its knees, begging for handouts like the Greeks are doing, what better way than to shut supply for a few months and then resume at your leisure, with control financially for the foreseeable future?

    It would make the UK a little China and would certainly not be cutting off nose............

    If you think about it, we are no longer Great Britain, no longer United Kingdom, instead we are a soft touch multi race society currently in the hands of the EU. What shall we call us? 'eu'.

    The Scots are unhappy and don't like Scotland but want the same and more than the English, the Welsh don't know what they want but seem happy with their two language signposts for the moment. That leaves us English being pulled apart in a multitude of ways. Where did we go wrong? Bring back Thatcher, or maybe Churchill? Anything would be better than these so called MPs stuffing their pockets like hamsters.

    We are easy pickings for China.

    Maybe it would be best for your wife to keep her Chinese culture intact and not risk diluting it.
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    Re: Westernisation of our chinese wives

    Post by lucasausems on 13/07/11, 07:34 pm

    To get back on topic :-)

    I am definitely going to study Chinese. When I begin my Masters next month I will also do an extra Chinese language course. She'll be learning English and Dutch, so the least I can do is learn Chinese.
    For the Masters I'll also have to learn Indonesian. So it's gonna be fun! :-D

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