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    MadGee
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    Re: Finance

    Post by MadGee on 19/08/11, 02:03 am

    makem wrote:
    handyal wrote:
    Han would only be entitled to Job Seeker's allowance if she has worked and contributed into the system for at least 26 weeks.

    Where did that come from Alan?


    Read: annex 3

    http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/jsa_background_information.pdf

    'There are two routes of entry to Jobseekers Allowance:

    those who have paid sufficient National Insurance contributions get contribution based
    JSA, at a personal rate for up to six months;

    those who do not qualify for, or whose needs are not met by contribution-based
    JSA may qualify for income-based JSA for themselves and their dependants
    according to need. The income-based element is paid as long as needed,
    provided that the qualifying conditions continue to be met.'
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 08:47 am

    Hi Eric,
    My information comes from training through my employment.

    You get private pensions so your total income is way above the lower limit, that's why you pay Council Tax.

    A single pensioner with no additional income would be entitled to 137.50 pw.
    Depending on their circumstances and contributions they may only get a reduced pension but the difference is made up from either tax credits or income support.
    Most elderly also qualify for Attendance allowance on top of other payments.

    My employer employs two 'caseworkers', highly qualified in the knowledge of the benefits system and the entitlements of the elderly, so we are kept informed of their entitlements and when to refer clients to a caseworker.

    To answer your question: How can anyone who has never worked make a claim?
    If they have income from a partner above the minimum level then they can't claim. If neither partner has any income, or a low income then they get income support.

    To put it in a nutshell, if like me your working then your wife won't be able to claim anything.
    If your retired and earning above state pension level she won't be able to claim anything.

    In these circumstances the 'state' say's you have enough to support both of you.
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 09:01 am

    wanneroo wrote:What are the rules in the UK pension scheme for say my situation? you bring your Wife to the UK on the settlement visa you are married now. your wife does not work she has just arrived What will the state pension rate be now for a married man with a Chinese Wife?

    In the UK the pensioner would be entitled to 137.50 pw. His wife would not be entitled to anything.
    Once she get's permanent residency and retires then you will be entitled to the minimum married couple's allowance of 209 pw.
    She may not qualify for full pension payments but the min payment of 209 for a married couple living together will be made up by other benefits.
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    wanneroo
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    Re: Finance

    Post by wanneroo on 19/08/11, 09:16 am

    Alan define retirement, if she has say 4 years to go after getting permanent residence to retire. at the prescribed age for a woman in the UK does the UK stipulate say 10 years in the UK by the Wife before a married pension is given? and does she have to become a citizen of the UK? does she get any income at all being married to a Brit during the 10 year period that we have here.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 09:29 am

    MadGee wrote:

    Read: annex 3

    http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/jsa_background_information.pdf


    That is Irish and all the dates mentioned are old ones. Ok NI will be the same but why not trust the mainland version?
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 09:35 am

    handyal wrote:Hi Eric,
    My information comes from training through my employment.

    You get private pensions so your total income is way above the lower limit, that's why you pay Council Tax.

    A single pensioner with no additional income would be entitled to 137.50 pw.

    I thought we were talking about basic state pension Alan. You can ony get that amount if your pension is topped up by pension credits which of course as I saved all my life I cannot get.

    I have never had anything from the state except trouble. Now I have to do a self assessment every year just at the time when I am likeley not to be in the UK. I must therefore do it online.

    My basic pension is topped up by various things because we opted out of the state second pension scheme years ago. I also have a little extra because I deferred taking my pension for a few years. But, it is still below the 'minimum' which is disgraceful imo. Why am I punished?
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 09:45 am

    No 10 year rule in the UK.

    Provided your wife has Permanent residency (ILR) she is entitled to receive benefits based on her/your joint circumstances. She doesn't have to become a British citizen to qualify for benefits.

    My wife has ILR and if I were retired we would receive 137.50 pw being my pension. My wife isn't at retirement age so she can work. She isn't entitled to claim any benefits because she hasn't paid any contributions into the system.

    If she works, she can earn 139 pw before she is taxed or pays NI contributions.
    If after 12 months she lost her job she can't claim anything because she hasn't contributed anything.

    On 139 pw I would not have to pay Council Tax but if my wife worked we would have to pay Council Tax because of our joint income. (My CT is currently 105 pm).

    The only condition in the UK is that you must have ILR to have any entitlement to benefits. You can get ILR after only two years in the UK.
    To qualify for ILR you must be living together in a permanent relationship and she must pass an ESOL English language test at least one level higher than she was assessed on her entry to the UK.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 09:51 am

    handyal wrote:
    wanneroo wrote:What are the rules in the UK pension scheme for say my situation? you bring your Wife to the UK on the settlement visa you are married now. your wife does not work she has just arrived What will the state pension rate be now for a married man with a Chinese Wife?

    In the UK the pensioner would be entitled to 137.50 pw. His wife would not be entitled to anything.

    Wrong Alan - the basic is 102 so he would get that plus extras depending on his contributions and if he opted out of the state second pension scheme.

    He may get pension credits and other benefits to make up the amount to the 'higher basic' but if that was the case I doubt if he would be allowed to bring a Chinese wife to the UK as he would not have sufficient funds to support her.

    That is why he is or would be getting pension credit - because he is poor and made little or no provision for his future.

    I think every one would be up in arms if someone on pension credits was able to support 2 people to the UKBA satisfaction lol. I know I would be! Just imagine all those oldies importing young girl 'carers' from China! They would all have an oral sex chair to boot!

    PS. Han has been asked to a JSA interview. I believe she will not be entitled to anything but I want to follow the online application through.


    Last edited by makem on 19/08/11, 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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    wanneroo
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    Re: Finance

    Post by wanneroo on 19/08/11, 10:00 am

    Very interesting information we get given with one hand and taken off with the other Thanks guys for the info I think living in Australia has some advantages swings and roundabouts Maybe retire to China in the coming years there isn't too many left Just make whoopee! and learn to love the Bomb!!
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 10:14 am

    handyal wrote:No 10 year rule in the UK.

    My wife has ILR and if I were retired we would receive 137.50 pw being my pension. (My CT is currently 105 pm).


    So you are very poor Alan? Would you really get pension credits? You have no company or private pensions? Try an online check:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/PensionCredit/DG_180167

    If your income is up to 188 you can get savings credit of
    20 to 27.09 per week.

    So from that I gather that the cut off point for any benefit added to your pension is 188 per week. You may be given indirect help such as rent rebate, council tax relief but Iv'e not looked at that.
    105 council tax - lucky bugger, I pay 117 for a much smaller place.
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 10:28 am

    makem wrote:[I thought we were talking about basic state pension Alan. You can ony get that amount if your pension is topped up by pension credits which of course as I saved all my life I cannot get.


    I thought we were talking about finances in retirement from whatever source. LOL.

    You are not being penalised because you don't get top ups. The government takes your whole income into account whether you pay taxes or whether you can claim benefits.

    Everyone is entitled to 137.50 pw which is set as the poverty line.


    Two scenarios Eric:
    I have worked all my life, saved and paid into a private pension fund to secure a decent living standard in my retirement years. I have to pay taxes on my retirement income and pay my Council Tax.

    My neighbour never worked, drank, smoked, gambled. He now gets 137.50 a week through Pension and top up benefits, doesn't pay taxes including Council Tax. He is better off than I am!

    Actually he isn't. He can never be better off than you are, albeit only a few quid difference in certain circumstances, but you have one thing he can never have. 'Dignity'!

    I agree with your sentiments though. The hardworking, careful investor and saver should have a comfortable income in retirement. The problem is that our government stole from the private pension funds and in retirement they think we also give up sex, so they decide to f*** us everyday !
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 10:32 am

    makem wrote:
    handyal wrote:No 10 year rule in the UK.

    My wife has ILR and if I were retired we would receive 137.50 pw being my pension. (My CT is currently 105 pm).


    So you are very poor Alan? Would you really get pension credits? You have no company or private pensions? Try an online check:

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/PensionCredit/DG_180167

    If your income is up to 188 you can get savings credit of
    20 to 27.09 per week.

    So from that I gather that the cut off point for any benefit added to your pension is 188 per week. You may be given indirect help such as rent rebate, council tax relief but Iv'e not looked at that.
    105 council tax - lucky bugger, I pay 117 for a much smaller place.

    This reply was in regard to Geoff's question.
    It was a comparison to his circumstances living in the UK.
    I used myself as an example in the same circumstances.
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 10:43 am

    I would receive 137.50 from the government as a minimum. That is made up of my basic state pension and Pension Tax credits because I have worked and contributed for over 40 years.

    My private pension plan and company pension plan will be paid on top of that amount to which I am entitled. However I will pay taxes.
    Depending on my total income I may, or may not be entitled to a Council Tax discount.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 12:35 pm

    handyal wrote:I would receive 137.50 from the government as a minimum. That is made up of my basic state pension and Pension Tax credits because I have worked and contributed for over 40 years.

    My private pension plan and company pension plan will be paid on top of that amount to which I am entitled. However I will pay taxes.
    Depending on my total income I may, or may not be entitled to a Council Tax discount.

    Sorry Alan, please read part 5 of this:

    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Global/Age-Cymru/Information-and-Advice/FS48%20Pension%20Credit%20April%202011.pdf

    In particular:

    The standard minimum guarantee is 137.35 a week for a single person and 209.70 a week for a couple. If your income is less than this, and you meet the other qualifying conditions, you will definitely qualify for PC.

    AND (sec 6)

    Any income you have is added up and deducted from your appropriate minimum guarantee. The difference is the PC Guarantee Credit you can claim.

    From that I assume your total income would be less than 137.35 when you make a claim for pension credits to top it up to 137.35. I find that hard to believe as you have other pensions, private and company the same as me.

    Pension Credit has to be claimed - it is not automatic and you must qualify. Pension Credit is not subject to how many years you pay in, it is purely 137.35 minus total income. ie.

    137.35 - 500 (in your case) = -362.65 so you are over the top and have no entitlement.

    But, you could get Savings Credit if your TOTAL income was no more than 188, but again you fail the test.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 12:41 pm

    handyal wrote:

    I thought we were talking about finances in retirement from whatever source. LOL.


    To be pedantic Wink

    We (me) started talking about how you arange your wifes day to day finance (to which you have not contributed Wink ) But then we got sidetracked to more interesting stuff.


    Last edited by makem on 19/08/11, 02:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Beijing2008
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    Re: Finance

    Post by Beijing2008 on 19/08/11, 01:03 pm

    We always find intersting sidetracks; but income at pensionage is also vital for your family income.
    What about you receiving a pension, and your wife has income,since she is younger.In your circumstances ,do you get a cutdown?

    In our circumstances I keep my total pension income,and it depends what my wife earns, how much tax we pay, and what xtra benefits we could get.Because Lance is then still a minor, we will get Child-allowance,and my wife Healthinsurance allowance and taxrefund.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 02:31 pm

    Beijing2008 wrote:We always find intersting sidetracks; but income at pensionage is also vital for your family income.
    What about you receiving a pension, and your wife has income,since she is younger.In your circumstances ,do you get a cutdown?

    In our circumstances I keep my total pension income,and it depends what my wife earns, how much tax we pay, and what xtra benefits we could get.Because Lance is then still a minor, we will get Child-allowance,and my wife Healthinsurance allowance and taxrefund.

    You can have any income, both you and your wife.

    Income only affects benefits you are entitled to ABOVE the basic pension entitlement (102 or thereabouts).

    If you or your wife are millionaires you each still get the basic pension, which cannot be cut back/down, when you reach pensionable age. You still get winter fuel allowance of 250 per year (they want to cut or stop that).

    Also drugs on prescription and yearly eye tests are free. I forget if you get anything else, oh a bus pass lol.

    You could not get pension credit because you would have more than 137.35 income.

    I suggest if you win the EU lottery, you send it to me, then you will keep all your benefits Wink
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 04:29 pm

    Eric,
    Please read Geoff's post No. 23 again!

    wanneroo wrote:What are the rules in the UK pension scheme for say my situation? you bring your Wife to the UK on the settlement visa you are married now. your wife does not work she has just arrived What will the state pension rate be now for a married man with a Chinese Wife? seeing we are doing comparisons I thought I would ask. I have looked at the State pension for the UK on the website. it is somewhat over the top with lots of info I cant really find what I was looking for. Any assistance would be welcome. Geoff

    My replies were hypathetical answers to Geoffs hypathetical question ref his situation if he lived in the UK.

    Nowhere have I quoted the basic state pension of 102. I stated everyone was entitled to 137.50 pw. You corrected me my 15p? Now that's padantic!

    It's impossible to forecast an individuals income when they retire because everyone has different circumstances which will effect what they may or may not be entitled to claim.

    Regardless of individuals circumstances the minimum a single pensioner should receive is 137.15 pw.
    I think that answered Geoffs question ?
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 05:10 pm

    If you want to know what benefits you or your wife may be entitled to based on your circumstances, try this link.
    https://www.dwpe-services.direct.gov.uk/portal/page/portal/ba/lp

    Click on 'check available benefits now' and follow it through with your details.

    Job seekers allowance can only be paid if you have made sufficient contributions by working, or if you are on a low income.
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Employedorlookingforwork/DG_10018757
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 05:45 pm

    handyal wrote:
    Regardless of individuals circumstances the minimum a single pensioner should receive is 137.15 pw.
    I think that answered Geoffs question ?

    It does not answer correctly Alan.

    The circumstances are very important.

    Check this:

    6

    Working out how much PC Guarantee Credit you can claim
    This section is a step-by-step guide to checking whether you will be eligible for PC Guarantee Credit and, if you are, how much you will be able to claim. Some examples are included to illustrate parts of the calculation.
    Factsheet 48  April 2011 14 of 32

    PC Guarantee Credit is worked out by comparing your income with the amount the government thinks you need to live on, the appropriate minimum guarantee. This is made up of the standard minimum guarantee of 137.35 a week if you are single or 209.70 if you have a partner, plus any of the extra amounts described in section 5.

    Any income you have is added up and deducted from your appropriate minimum guarantee. The difference is the PC Guarantee Credit you can claim.

    I gave a link to that earlier.

    The government think you need 137.35 to live on.

    If you get the basic 102.15 (by right) pension and have no other income then you can apply for a top up to 137.35

    You can add a further top up to 188 if you have savings under 10,000.

    You cannot get any more unless you have special circumstances or a partner.

    If you have more than 188 and no special circumstances then 'go away' like you and me will have to.

    If this fails to convince you then we are talking about different things so give me a call tonight, see if we can agree on something lol
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 08:10 pm

    Geoff's circumstances are thus, as he has posted.

    Geoff is retired and receiving a single person state pension.
    His wife Mary is not working and is not at retirement age.

    He asked what would he get if he lived in the UK in those circumstances.
    Answer: Geoff would be entitled to claim 137.35 as a minimum.
    Mary wouldn't be entitled to anything.

    Which benefit can you top it up to 188 with ?
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    Re: Finance

    Post by davidmckendrick on 19/08/11, 08:28 pm

    Wouldn't he get the married couples rate of 209 since Mary is over the UK retirement age for women? I know that Mary could not claim for herself but I think he could claim for a couple.

    I know that my wife and her son were not entitled to claim any Benefits when they arrived here but I was allowed to claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits because her son lived in my house. Now that they both have ILR my wife can claim both the Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits for her son as long as he stays in full time education (but not apparently if he goes to "Higher education" by going to University.) We are allowed to continue to claim Benefits if he does an NVQ or A levels at College but not if he does a Diploma or Degree.


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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 09:59 pm

    handyal wrote:Geoff's circumstances are thus, as he has posted.

    Geoff is retired and receiving a single person state pension.
    His wife Mary is not working and is not at retirement age.

    He asked what would he get if he lived in the UK in those circumstances.
    Answer: Geoff would be entitled to claim 137.35 as a minimum.
    Mary wouldn't be entitled to anything.

    Which benefit can you top it up to 188 with ?

    Ok Alan, If Geof arrived here with an income which when added to 102.15 was more than 137.35, he would get nothing. (forgetting for the moment any sepecial circumstances).

    He cannot claim 137.35 as a basic right and then start from there. His only right would be 102.15 whatever income he had.

    So his income must be less than 137.35 - 102 15 = 35.20 from other sources such as private pension.

    Lets say he had a private pension of 5.20 then he would get 30 if he applied for it. If he didn't apply because of ignorance he would get nothing automatically. Thats why there are millions of unclaimed money.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/PensionCredit/DG_10018692

    Tells you about Pension credit as a whole which has two parts, guaranteed credit and savings credit.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/PensionCredit/DG_180159

    Gives you examples of how it works.

    Savings credit is how you can top it up to 188
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    handyal
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    Re: Finance

    Post by handyal on 19/08/11, 11:09 pm

    Mary wouldn't be able to claim anything because she would have 'no recourse to public funds'.
    If Mary was in the UK with Geoff she would be on her temporary entry Visa.

    Geoff never stated he had any personal pension or other income?
    As a UK citizen and only receiving 102.15 government pension he would be entitled to either pension tax credits or income support to top his entitlement up to 137.35.

    The link you gave Eric does not state you can top up to 188 unless you have made other provisions towards your retirement. Geoff stated he got basic single state pension.

    Age 65 or over - Savings Credit
    If you are aged 65 or over and living in Great Britain you may be entitled to Savings Credit. You may get the Savings Credit on its own or with the Guarantee Credit. You may be entitled to Savings Credit if you:

    are aged 65 or over
    have made some provision towards your retirement such as savings or a second pension
    If you have a partner, at least one of you must be 65 or over to get the Savings Credit.

    The Savings Credit can be up to:

    20.52 a week if you are single
    27.09 a week if you have a partner
    You may still get the Savings Credit even if the money you have coming in is up to about:

    188 a week if you are single
    277 a week if you have a partner
    These amounts may be more if you are disabled, have caring responsibilities or certain housing costs, such as mortgage interest payments.


    Interesting debate though Eric, I'm sure it's uncovered a lot of valuable information the members didn't know. I can see you pensioners scrambling to check your state pensions now. LOL.
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    makem
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    Re: Finance

    Post by makem on 19/08/11, 11:39 pm

    handyal wrote:Mary wouldn't be able to claim anything because she would have 'no recourse to public funds'.
    If Mary was in the UK with Geoff she would be on her temporary entry Visa.

    Geoff never stated he had any personal pension or other income?
    As a UK citizen and only receiving 102.15 government pension he would be entitled to either pension tax credits or income support to top his entitlement up to 137.35.

    Correct Alan. (well nearly lol)

    But you appeared to be saying he was entitled to 137.35 regardless of income or maybe I read that wrongly?

    Geoff didn't say anything about income but we can assume he has more than 35.20 per week as he has 'imported' a Chinese wife.

    Therefore I was trying to point out that he would not automatically get 137.35 (jeez how many times have I typed 137.35)

    Anyway, I think you and I have covered this topic quite fully (in our own ways). So maybe we can agree to differ, moot point.

    As for JSA, I think you are right about 'must have earnings' but I am going to get Han to have the interview because the web page interview said she could apply for JSA AND another benefit. She will then get experience of using the system, speaking to Job Centre staff, using the terminals to see what jobs are out there.

    We used the terminals once before so I could show her that without English she didn't stand a chance of a decent job although she had a high standing job previously.

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    Re: Finance

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      Current date/time is 13/12/18, 08:30 am