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    Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

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    makem
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    Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 05/09/11, 01:53 pm

    My wife is applying for a French Schengen Visa as the spouse of an EU National.

    We have two marriage books, we have notorised translations of these which were made in China. They are contained in a white folder, have red stamps and an embossed seal through every page.

    The application for for the visa says: If married outside the EU the marriage certificate must be authenticated by the Foreign Office in the Country where the marriage took place, or, by the countries Embassy in the UK

    I have been unable to contact the Chines Embassy in London either by email or telephone. I telephoned the Chinese Embassy in Manchester and spoke to a lady whos job it would be to deal with the authentification. She said that is the documents were produced in China they have not authority to authenticate them.

    She suggested asking the French Embassy or Foreign Office in China or the Chinese Foreign Office in China to authenticate them via post.

    Has anyone had to make a similar problem?

    I have no idea where these places would be at this time.

    As far as I can see, the only difference between a spouse application for a Schengen Visa is the cost and evidence of finance, travel and accomodation. I am thinking it may be easier to bear the expense and just apply in my wifes name only, to hell with the spouse visa.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 05/09/11, 03:04 pm

    A non EU citizen can only travel on a schenghen visa if she is accompanied by her partner.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 05/09/11, 05:51 pm

    handyal wrote:A non EU citizen can only travel on a schenghen visa if she is accompanied by her partner.

    Lol, what brought that comment up?

    I can't see any of our wives travelling alone. But maybe you mean if she wanted to she couldn't. I think you are wrong.

    Graham's partner is not married and she got an SV in her own right.

    Any person in the world can get an SV or am I as usual missing something lol.

    If I am wrong then lets say an African must get several visas if he want to wander around the EU?

    Lets have an edict from the font of all knowledge Wink

    I know you can take a joke m8.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 05/09/11, 08:23 pm

    makem wrote:My wife is applying for a French Schengen Visa as the spouse of an EU National.

    We have two marriage books, we have notorised translations of these which were made in China. They are contained in a white folder, have red stamps and an embossed seal through every page.

    The application for for the visa says: If married outside the EU the marriage certificate must be authenticated by the Foreign Office in the Country where the marriage took place, or, by the countries Embassy in the UK

    I have been unable to contact the Chines Embassy in London either by email or telephone. I telephoned the Chinese Embassy in Manchester and spoke to a lady whos job it would be to deal with the authentification. She said that is the documents were produced in China they have not authority to authenticate them.


    How can the Chinese Embassy authenticate an original document ?

    The Chinese issue Marriage Books, not certificates, these are your 'authentics' as in 'original'.

    Your thinking of your notorised translations, yes ?

    In China the red books are your marriage certificate and recognised and accepted in the UK and the EU.


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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 05/09/11, 09:13 pm

    The French Embassy are saying that documents which are not in French or English must be translated.

    Thats part one.

    They then go on to say that marriage documents produced in a country outside the EU must be authenticated by the Foreign Office of the issuing country or the Embassy of the issueing country.

    Thats part two.

    Because the documents (marriage books) have been translated by a notary who said that the marriage books are true marriage books in Chinese law, the next part is to have the Chinese authorities say that the notary whose signature appears on the translated document, is in fact a lawful registered Notary.

    It could in fact be me who said I was a notary, or anyone else with a red stamp.

    So, if the Chinese autority say, by stamping the document, yes this it all true, then the French Embassy will accept it.

    That is how I see it.

    I appear to have douments which are acceptable by banks and local authorities in the UK, but not by the French and maybe other Embassies.

    I fail to see why you think the Chinese Embassy cannot authenticate an original document which is a document produced by their State. Just because it appears original, it may not be. It could be forged?

    The French Embassy say 'certificates' because even if the 'certificates' are books, they are still certificates in book form.

    The red books in themseleves are not recognised in the UK (they cannot be read by an English authority). The notorised translation that accompanies them makes an accepted 'package'.

    imo

    I think we are both talking about the same thing from different points of view.

    I am just hoping somebody had been through this and that we are not the ones to test the water.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 05/09/11, 11:13 pm

    My view on this is from a different angle.

    I have my original marriage books with stamps of the Civil Ministry.
    I have an English translation confirming the seal.
    Together these form a package.

    The Marriage registry office in China (for foreigners) and departments of the PSB who deal with visas and residency permits for foreigners in China are departments of Civil Affairs (Foreign civil affairs).

    So effectively I have the seal of the Chinese Civil Affairs for Foreigners in our wedding books.


    I know only of one other who got a schengen visa, the marriage books and the english translations were sufficient.

    On Wednesday Derek is applying for a schengen visa with marriage books and english translation. Lets see how he goes on.

    It's not logical to authenticate a seal or translation for a schengen visa.
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg scenario. LOL.



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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 05/09/11, 11:57 pm

    I think Derek will have a problem other than marriage certificates.

    The Schengen visa system says that the person accompanying a UK EU member must be a UK resident and not a person on a visitors visa.

    However, he seems to have been told it is possible, so yes, we wait with bated breath
    .
    Alan, can you pysically describe your notary translation. Are they like mine and Dereks, a white 'folder' with photo copies of pages of your wifes marriage book, a chinese statement, a translation and a certificate of a notary?

    Which country did the 'other' get a SV for?
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 06/09/11, 06:29 am

    makem wrote:
    The Schengen visa system says that the person accompanying a UK EU member must be a UK resident and not a person on a visitors visa.


    Food for thought.If that is true then;
    a) How did Grahams wife get a schengen visa ? (They live in China, she has no UK Visa)
    b) Han also doesn't yet have 'residency' in the sense of the word. She has a 27 month 'leave to enter' the UK, Dereks wife has a 6 month 'leave to enter'. I see no difference.

    I have a translated English Marriage certificate (supplied by the Civil Marriage Registry office) and a notorised translation in a folder as you describe.

    The 'other', I'm sure got a SV for Spain.

    It sounds like the French are being a little OTT.

    Original marriage books, notorised translation and your passports should be sufficient.
    In Hans case her UK Visa should state she is the spouse of...........

    You have already been through the Ministry of Civil Affairs of the PRC to get married and then had this ratified by the British Embassy in order to get Han's Visa.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 06/09/11, 09:41 am

    handyal wrote:

    Food for thought.If that is true then;
    a) How did Grahams wife get a schengen visa ? (They live in China, she has no UK Visa)
    b) Han also doesn't yet have 'residency' in the sense of the word. She has a 27 month 'leave to enter' the UK, Dereks wife has a 6 month 'leave to enter'. I see no difference.


    It may be me who is being OTT in the reading of the French rules. I may be interpreting them to harshly. On their web page I saw the word 'may' need authentification. But on the TLS site is says 'must'. I suppose they may have some discretion depending on the 'worth' of the documents you submit.

    As you say, Han has been accepted as a spouse in the UK whose Border controls are fairly strict. She has a notorised marrriage document which they are able to read.

    Anyhow, back to Graham and his parners SV. What about all the other people in the world, what visa do they get to visit the EU? Grahams partner is one of those. I think you will find the only visa available is an SV. I must admit, I have assumed that his partner applied for the visa in China and not whilst touring in another country. I may be wrong in that.

    As for Han, she has to be 'resident' as opposed to a tourist. It specifically says that those with tourist visas must apply in the country of residence. Maybe Portugal is more lenient in that it needs the tourist money? Similarily, Spain may have needed the money.


    Last edited by makem on 07/09/11, 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 06/09/11, 08:08 pm

    From ChineseVisaDirect, London:

    We have spoken to the Chinese Embassy and they say you must take or send your documents to the Chinese Foreign Office (only in Beijing?), for authentification. They cannot authorise at the Embassy.

    So, I will apply for Han's spouse Schengen Visa tomorrow using the marriage documents we have and see what happens. Apart frm the return ferry ticket (which cannot be fully refunded within 28 days of passage), we will submit every document needed for a 'self' Schengen Visa which is OTT for a spouse visa.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 06/09/11, 08:32 pm

    makem wrote:
    Anyhow, back to Graham and his parners SV. What about all the other people in the world, what visa do they get to visit the EU? Grahams partner is one of those. I think you will find the only visa available is an SV. I must admit, I have assumed that his partner applied for the visa in China and not whilst touring in another country. I may be wrong in that.

    As for Han, she has to be 'resident' as opposed to a tourist. It specifically says that those with tourist visas must apply in the country of birth. Maybe Portugal is more lenient in that it needs the tourist money? Similarily, Spain may have needed the money.

    Anyone outside the EU must apply for a SV to visit the EU, agreed.
    Grahams partner and Henry are two examples.

    Derek's wife is on a 'Family Visitor Visa' not a 'Visitor' Visa. (Spouse, not Tourist).
    Technically Han is only a vistor, she doesn't get a 'residency permit' until she gets ILR.
    Although I agree that a visitor would normally have to apply for a SV from their own country in the case of a 'spouse' of a UK citizen they can apply from the UK. That's why Han would also get a SV on a temporary entry visa to the UK.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 06/09/11, 08:52 pm

    handyal wrote:
    Derek's wife is on a 'Family Visitor Visa' not a 'Visitor' Visa. (Spouse, not Tourist).
    Technically Han is only a vistor, she doesn't get a 'residency permit' until she gets ILR.
    Although I agree that a visitor would normally have to apply for a SV from their own country in the case of a 'spouse' of a UK citizen they can apply from the UK. That's why Han would also get a SV on a temporary entry visa to the UK.

    Where does that leave Dereks wife? Do you now agree with me he may have a problem as she is not on a spouse visa?


    Last edited by makem on 07/09/11, 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changed 'not a spouse' to 'not on a spouse visa')

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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by Graham on 06/09/11, 09:32 pm

    handyal wrote:
    makem wrote:
    The Schengen visa system says that the person accompanying a UK EU member must be a UK resident and not a person on a visitors visa.


    Food for thought.If that is true then;
    a) How did Grahams wife get a schengen visa ? (They live in China, she has no UK Visa)
    b) Han also doesn't yet have 'residency' in the sense of the word. She has a 27 month 'leave to enter' the UK, Dereks wife has a 6 month 'leave to enter'. I see no difference.

    I have a translated English Marriage certificate (supplied by the Civil Marriage Registry office) and a notorised translation in a folder as you describe.

    The 'other', I'm sure got a SV for Spain.

    It sounds like the French are being a little OTT.

    Original marriage books, notorised translation and your passports should be sufficient.
    In Hans case her UK Visa should state she is the spouse of...........

    You have already been through the Ministry of Civil Affairs of the PRC to get married and then had this ratified by the British Embassy in order to get Han's Visa.
    .
    Hi Alan,

    Me and Fay are not married yet.
    We both went to the Freanch embassy in Beijing, and explained we were not yet married, but living as husband and wife for almost 2 years.
    We showed them emails and documentation of all our previous holidays together, and Fay had made a book up to document our "togetherness".
    We got her 6 month visa in about 3 days.
    Very easy.

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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by Graham on 06/09/11, 09:40 pm

    makem wrote:
    handyal wrote:

    Food for thought.If that is true then;
    a) How did Grahams wife get a schengen visa ? (They live in China, she has no UK Visa)
    b) Han also doesn't yet have 'residency' in the sense of the word. She has a 27 month 'leave to enter' the UK, Dereks wife has a 6 month 'leave to enter'. I see no difference.


    It may be me who is being OTT in the reading of the French rules. I may be interpreting them to harshly. On their web page I saw the word 'may' need authentification. But on the TLS site is says 'must'. I suppose they may have some discretion depending on the 'worth' of the documents you submit.

    As you say, Han has been accepted as a spouse in the UK whose Border controls are fairly strict. She has a notorised marrriage document which they are able to read.

    Anyhow, back to Graham and his parners SV. What about all the other people in the world, what visa do they get to visit the EU? Grahams partner is one of those. I think you will find the only visa available is an SV. I must admit, I have assumed that his partner applied for the visa in China and not whilst touring in another country. I may be wrong in that.

    As for Han, she has to be 'resident' as opposed to a tourist. It specifically says that those with tourist visas must apply in the country of birth. Maybe Portugal is more lenient in that it needs the tourist money? Similarily, Spain may have needed the money.
    .
    Hi Derek,
    You are correct, we applied together in Beijing.
    Fay did get a South African visa while we were in UK on holiday.
    All they wanted to see was that she had (we had) sufficient money.
    When Fay pulled out 60,000 RNB from a plastic Asda bag, they got the message, and just counted 10,000 and said thats more than enough.
    It was a bit touch and go, as I had put my South African house address down, and in hind sight, this was not a good move, but any way, we got her visa.

    Graham Weifang now in Barcelona sunny
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by davidmckendrick on 07/09/11, 12:23 am

    [quote="makem"]
    handyal wrote:
    Derek's wife is on a 'Family Visitor Visa' not a 'Visitor' Visa. (Spouse, not Tourist).
    Technically Han is only a vistor, she doesn't get a 'residency permit' until she gets ILR.
    Although I agree that a visitor would normally have to apply for a SV from their own country in the case of a 'spouse' of a UK citizen they can apply from the UK. That's why Han would also get a SV on a temporary entry visa to the UK.

    Where does that leave Dereks wife? Do you now agree with me he may have a problem as she is not a spouse?[/quote]


    Lost me there. What is a wife if not a spouse??????


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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 07/09/11, 12:41 am

    davidmckendrick wrote:



    Lost me there. What is a wife if not a spouse??????


    David

    LOL Dereks wife is here on a family visitor visa because she has not passed the English test to get a spouse visa.

    I should have said 'not on a spouse visa' rather than not a spouse lol.

    Sorry.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 07/09/11, 05:57 am

    There are no requirements for her to pass the English test for entering the Schengen area though.

    I haven't researched the Schengen Visa conditions and am only basing my opinion on my experience with other types of Visa's and common sense.

    Derek is an EU citizen within the SV area. To deny his 'spouse' would be to discriminate against the wife of an EU citizen.

    I think it has less to do with the type of Visa you are on and depends more on your relationship.

    I am familiar with 'family permits' for entry to the UK from an EU country.
    This clearly states the rights of the spouse of an EU citizen to travel with, or to join her partner in the UK. In fact it defines 'family members'.

    It would seem common sense that the same conditions apply in the reverse situation.

    We should know the answers later today and this will supply the answers to a question that has never been fully answered before on the forum.

    I wish both you and Derek good luck.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 07/09/11, 09:52 am

    France definately require residency. Residency means currently living in the the country where you apply rather than just visting, family or not.

    If you have a student visa you can apply from the UK. I suppose that is a form of residency.

    I came across one other country with the same conditions as France but I forget which. It maybe that some accept and some don't.

    As you say, we will see.

    It will be a bugger if Derek gets one and we don't lol.

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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by Graham on 07/09/11, 03:21 pm

    I am so very very confused now,
    I hope every one gets the visa they want.

    Graham Weifang ~ Barcelona sunny
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by Derek on 07/09/11, 05:04 pm

    Hi Eric

    Just three words "It's a Bugger"

    No problem whatsoever, details to follow.

    Madeira here we come cheers

    Derk
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 07/09/11, 05:19 pm

    Derek wrote:Hi Eric

    Just three words "It's a Bugger"

    No problem whatsoever, details to follow.

    Madeira here we come cheers

    Derk

    Congratulations Derek. I hope you have a great time.

    Phone me when you get a chance.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 08/09/11, 06:23 am

    Congratulations Derek and Tina.

    Can you post a list of exactly which documents they accepted and was there any cost. Schengen Visa's should be free.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by handyal on 08/09/11, 06:26 am

    Eric,

    Didn't you apply yesterday?
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by makem on 08/09/11, 09:23 am

    handyal wrote:Eric,

    Didn't you apply yesterday?

    Yes, I did.

    Via the only postal service there is - TLS.

    https://www.tlscontact.com/gb2fr/page.php?pid=jurisdiction

    I will check today that Royal Mail have delivered and then chech the TLS web site which will tell me the next step.

    It takes 3 days by post. Presumably working days.

    Ask Derek to say which visa his wife applied for, spouse or individual.
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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

    Post by Derek on 08/09/11, 04:42 pm

    Hi All.

    Background to my wifes SV application.

    Tina arrived from China at the beginning of August on a 6 month family visitors visa, which expires on the 1/01/2012. (Beijing Embassy got the wrong (C--- U-) dates on the visa. We requested a 1/08/2011 1/02/2012 and they issued it 1/07/2011 1/01/2012).
    Prior to Tina coming to UK we had no intention of going anywhere else other than in UK. Over the last few weeks an opportunity came up for Tina and I to go on holiday to Madeira.

    So I contacted 3 visa offices. I explained to them what had happened; I asked each of the visa offices if you could get a visa after arrival in the UK. I got the same answer from each of them NO, she should have applied for a SV before she came to UK. (Question, How can you apply for a SV prior to coming to UK if you had no intentions of going into a SV area) One of the visa offices I contacted was TLS, I found them to be a bit of the cuff, the person I spoke to there said send your wife back to China, tell her to apply for a SV then come back, ask us to apply for your visa for you, and then go on your holiday. I said to the chap Bas you must be joking, it will cost between 600 - 700 for her to go back to China.
    The 3 visa offices quoted me 95 - 115 - 134 to process and apply for a visa for Tina.

    As a last resort, I telephoned the Portuguese Embassy in London and explained the situation to them. They said no problem, where do you live, I told them Lancashire, they said contact our Consulate in Manchester, and they gave me the phone number.
    When I telephoned Manchester they told me to fill in the on-line application form which we did last Friday evening (2/09/2011) at the same time we were given a reference number and had the opportunity to book an appointment which we made for 11 am on the 7/09/2011.

    Prior to going for the interview I telephoned the Consulate again to verify the document they required.

    We arrived at the Portuguese Consulate in Manchester at 10.50, yesterday (Wednesday) we were requested to take a seat, and were called forward at 11.07, the lady was very polite and helpful, she spoke to one of her colleagues, the gentleman she spoke to said you must have 2 months left on your UK visa when your SV runs out. (The request dates for Tinas SV was 17/10/2011 24/10-2011) We completed the formalities quickly, the lady said we can send your passport back by post, or if you like you can collect at 15.30 this afternoon, which we selected to do. We were out of the Consulate by 11.20, a quick and speedy process.

    We return at 15.20, and was asked to take a seat, within a few minutes the gentleman that had been involved in the morning came over and gave Tina her passport with the S Visa in, and wished us a happy holiday.

    Documents required for visa.

    1 Completed application form
    2 2 x passport photos
    3 Both of our passports
    4 Our Chinese marriage book, (we also took our Notarised Marriage document with use)
    5 Holiday booking confirmation

    Total cost 00.00 of visa.

    When I questioned the cost, the response I was given was you do not pay anything because your wifes married to a UK citizen.

    Over all the process for the 2 visits only took 18 minutes, what an excellent service.

    One point to remember, from the END date of your wifes SV, there must be 2 months left on her UK entry visa before it expires.

    Derk

    Ps: Eric, I do not understand your question as there is only one application form, there is no choice for spouse application or individual application forms.

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    Re: Marriage documents and Schengen Visa

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      Current date/time is 17/11/18, 07:25 am