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    Cupping

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    wanneroo
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    Cupping

    Post by wanneroo on 09/01/12, 06:20 am

    I know sometime ago "cupping" was discussed, I am not too sure about this Chinese traditional method, vs Western medicine is this a load of hogwash, all ills can be cured by Chinese Medicine, I am not too confident in these methods, are these fanciful methods? we are married to Chinese ladies with their methodology well entrenched in numerous books and theories not wanting to appear totally negative in the aspects of Chinese medicine but I am having some questions arising from my own observations who is Right who is wrong
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    chinatyke
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by chinatyke on 09/01/12, 09:47 am

    Ducks come to mind.....quack, quack...
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    makem
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by makem on 09/01/12, 11:38 am

    wanneroo wrote:I know sometime ago "cupping" was discussed, I am not too sure about this Chinese traditional method, vs Western medicine is this a load of hogwash, all ills can be cured by Chinese Medicine, I am not too confident in these methods, are these fanciful methods? we are married to Chinese ladies with their methodology well entrenched in numerous books and theories not wanting to appear totally negative in the aspects of Chinese medicine but I am having some questions arising from my own observations who is Right who is wrong

    Cupping is another form of blood letting which was practiced in the UK many years ago to release bad blood. I am sure it never cured anyone, even those who must have got better.

    My son-in-law pays for cupping to relieve pain in his shoulder. He swears that it does relieve the pain. Han uses accupuncture for pain and also swears by it.

    When I suggest neither really works and that the relief is in the mind of the patient they reply saying it is down to the practitioner who maybe good or bad.

    As you know, the Chinese are very frugal which their money so I tend to doubt they would pay if some relief was not obtained directly or indirectly. Also both methods have been in use for a very long time in China so must have some eficacy.
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    chinatyke
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by chinatyke on 09/01/12, 11:52 am

    makem wrote:

    As you know, the Chinese are very frugal which their money so I tend to doubt they would pay if some relief was not obtained directly or indirectly. Also both methods have been in use for a very long time in China so must have some eficacy.

    The Chinese are a nation of hypochondriacs, they love paying for treatment and going to hospital or clinics for infusions and other needless treatment. I say they are just going for their TLC infusion or 'tea and sympathy'.

    Graham
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    makem
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by makem on 09/01/12, 12:30 pm

    chinatyke wrote:
    makem wrote:

    As you know, the Chinese are very frugal which their money so I tend to doubt they would pay if some relief was not obtained directly or indirectly. Also both methods have been in use for a very long time in China so must have some eficacy.

    The Chinese are a nation of hypochondriacs, they love paying for treatment and going to hospital or clinics for infusions and other needless treatment. I say they are just going for their TLC infusion or 'tea and sympathy'.

    Graham

    From my interactions with all walks of life in China, Judges, Solicitors, Professors, Doctors, Police, Directors, and joe public, I do not find that. They appear to genuinely believe they get something more. Personally I believe, if you believe in something it can have a placebo effect and 'cure' you.

    An example of belief is religion. People actually talk to God and God helps them. Well if that belief makes them happy I do not knock it. My eldests son is Catholic and the whole family on his wifes side is Catholic. They are very happy with their church, it's practices and it's beliefs. However, I have doubts given the history and I keep them quiet. However, they are the happiest family of my 4 children's families.
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    chinatyke
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by chinatyke on 09/01/12, 03:44 pm

    makem wrote:
    An example of belief is religion. People actually talk to God and God helps them.

    Ahh! God botherers! Twisted Evil

    Say no more! Very Happy
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 09/01/12, 09:22 pm

    Wow! From cupping to God, way to go! I think your analogy between cupping and blood letting a poor one Eric, I've been 'cupped' and certainly no blood was spilt. Cupping brings a supply of blood to the area thus relieving a restriction freeing up any tight muscles as an example. Much in the same way as when you hit yourself against something and a bruise forms, blood goes to the injured area to promote healing. This also occurs in massage, which stimulates blood flow. The theory of Blood letting, practised by barbers in days gone by, or by attaching leeches,was to make you replace your blood therefore 'diluting' the sickness, anyone who has given a blood donation will agree that after a couple of hours you can feel pretty good. There's much we don't know about, call it tribal medicine if you will, that could be very beneficial and are only just being rediscovered. Walking around in bare feet is supposed to stimulate nerve endings that can eliminate pain in the parts of the body associated with that nerve ending, foot reflexology, works for me. As does a good massage. Belief is a wonderful thing but I don't think having tunnel vision is.

    Cheers,
    Chris.
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    davidmckendrick
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by davidmckendrick on 09/01/12, 10:10 pm

    All Western medicines are measured against a "placebo" because placebos do work. The aim is to find out how much more effective the medicine is compared to the placebo. I imagine that Chinese treatments must have at least a placebo effect and that itself can be very effective. Western medicines are produced in various coloured and shaped tablets because the drug companies know that even the shape or colour can have a beneficial effect otherwise all tablets would be white.
    I have not tried cupping but having worked most of my career in hospitals I am only too aware of how ineffective many medicines are despite the fact that they continue to be prescribed in large quantities by doctors and bought over the counter from pharmacies.
    It is not just the Chinese who are a nation of hypochondriacs - I find both British and Kenyans make straight for the hospital/GP for a range of minor ailments that I would not even bother treating at home. In particular they swallow paracetamol like they are sweets and demand antibiotics for a cold.
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    makem
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by makem on 09/01/12, 11:56 pm

    Chris Seaborn wrote:Wow! From cupping to God, way to go! I think your analogy between cupping and blood letting a poor one Eric,

    Well, I beg to differ Chris.

    Cupping does not draw blood to the injured area to assist healing. Cupping in fact damages the small capilliary blood vessels allowing blood to flow into the surrounding tissue.

    This is what happens in bruising. Bruising is caused by an injury to the blood vessels by an external blunt force. Bruising is a visible result of an injury and can be from black to invisible to the naked eye. That is one reason for me visting an attacked person 3 times over three days to record the bruising.

    The blood thus coming out of the capilliary vessels clots and does nothing whatsoever for the below surface injury. Have you ever hit a finger with a hammer and got a blood blister? This is an extreme example of bruising. What happens to the blood? Did you not at some stage see an actual solid clot come away from below the now dead skin above?

    So cupping makes a visible show for you to see and give you the placebo effect of having a 'cure'.

    A love 'bite' is a form of cupping too. Again it is just an injury below the skin surface making a visible mark.

    So to conclude, blood letting lets blood out of it's normal place in the body. Cupping does exactly the same but its effect is much less dramatic.

    Cupping is a placebo.

    Confirmation of my opinion:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruise

    For the placebo opinion:

    In fact, the body is a comprehensive system that needs to be balanced in order to work properly. An imbalance to your system can make you sick. For example, if too much toxin made their way inside your system, it will create enormous disruptions in your body which could lead to sickness. In like manner, if cold air packets have penetrated your muscles nerves, it could cause common sickness and pains.

    Cupping will use heat to suck out those toxins and accumulated stress and tensions. The suction created through cupping method will loosen impacted nerve endings thus restoring them to their original state.

    http://www.chinesecupping.net/

    JEEZ! compounded nerve endings!!! what shxte.

    Just a last thought........If cupping bring a supply of blood to the area to assist 'whatever', why does it stay there for quite a long time? Blood is inside a tube and if the tube is undamaged it will continue in it's direction of flow. The alternative is that cupping causes a clot inside the 'tube' causing it to stay there. Clots are formed by the blood to prevent further blood loss not to assist healing. So it follows that cupping is not helping except as a placebo.

    Now massage! Well that does help.


    Last edited by makem on 10/01/12, 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : last thought)
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 11/01/12, 07:40 am

    I would not place Cupping into the same class, or even refer to it as 'Blood letting' Eric. I've never seen one drop of blood spilt during a Cupping procedure.

    Cupping therapy is an ancient form of alternative medicine in which a local suction is created on the skin; practitioners believe this mobilizes blood flow in order to promote healing.[1] Suction is created using heat (fire) or mechanical devices (hand or electrical pumps).

    and...

    Bloodletting (or blood-letting) is the withdrawal of often little quantities of blood from a patient to cure or prevent illness and disease.

    Both quotes from Wikipedia.

    I've been Cupped many times whilst I boarded with an Alternative Practitioner during one period of my life, and she has been my friend for many years, not once was I bruised, or damaged in any way.
    I would suggest, maybe, that the 'Cupperist' that you allude to was the clot, lol, and find somebody who knows what they're doing. I also couldn't describe a love bite a form of Cupping either as the damage to ones neck, or where ever, was certainly caused by the misuse of someone's teeth and severe sucking on a sensitive part of ones body, more like using a set of pincers than the glass cup that is used in the alternative practice.

    But you're right, it could be classed as a placebo, not that I agree that it is,or that it isn't, if a person doesn't believe in something there's a good chance that it...whatever that is..won't work, and the reverse applies. If the power of the mind could be utilised then most of the Medical Profession would be on the dole queue.

    The same applies to your God, if you believe in a God then it'll work for you, if you don't..then that obviously works for you also.

    I have an open mind. If I'm not forced into a belief or practice then I'm happy to let people be happy too.

    Cheers,
    Chris.

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    makem
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by makem on 11/01/12, 10:01 am

    Chris Seaborn wrote:I would not place Cupping into the same class, or even refer to it as 'Blood letting' Eric. I've never seen one drop of blood spilt during a Cupping procedure.


    Never did say cupping was blood letting m8. Said it was similar. In that blood comes out of it's normal place, not necessarily out through the skin.

    Blood letting was a placebo in that it let blood out of the body.

    Cupping is a placebo in that it lets blood out of the capiliaries into the surrounding flesh.

    Similar?

    Where the blood goes does not matter, in the persons (patient and practitioner) mind the result is the same.

    Similar?

    Lol, aren't we getting pedantic in our old age.

    Have a good day m8
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 11/01/12, 12:34 pm

    "Cupping is another form of blood letting which was practiced in the UK many years ago to release bad blood...." is what you wrote in your first post Eric, hence my reply with the definition of blood letting and cupping, you never mentioned 'similar' in that post. I reckon your son-in-law is on the ball though. LOL. Yeah, it's great fun being a grumpy, younger, old man and learning to be a pedant too.

    you have a good day too cobber.(Told you in another post that I'd gone Aussie).

    Cheers,
    Chris.
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    makem
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by makem on 11/01/12, 04:14 pm

    Chris Seaborn wrote:"Cupping is another form of blood letting which was practiced in the UK many years ago to release bad blood...." is what you wrote in your first post Eric, hence my reply with the definition of blood letting and cupping, you never mentioned 'similar' in that post. I reckon your son-in-law is on the ball though. LOL. Yeah, it's great fun being a grumpy, younger, old man and learning to be a pedant too.

    you have a good day too cobber.(Told you in another post that I'd gone Aussie).

    Cheers,
    Chris.

    Jeez, talk about pedantic!

    another form = similar, or that not close enough for you?

    You said "I've never seen one drop of blood spilt during a Cupping procedure."

    Which suggests I said blood flows out of the body. I did not.

    Shall we call our methods of wording a moot point, or shall we spend the rest of the new year in disagreement lol?
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    Chris Seaborn
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    Re: Cupping

    Post by Chris Seaborn on 11/01/12, 09:21 pm

    Ah! "another form = similar, or that not close enough for you", I'm glad you weren't my school teacher (were you?)...I'd never have passed my monthly tests, lol.

    Have a good one,

    Chris.

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